Things I hate About Heisei Riders

[Aoi Kurenai]

I dont understand. We must have a strong reason for not liking a show? how come nobody say this kind of things in the "things i like 'bout heisei kamen rider" thread? nobody tell you "your reason for liking this series is weak", a reason is a reason. If he doesnt like that series, and he has a reason, leave him alone!

I'd find this perfectly acceptable if he actually did see the series, from what I've gathered, he really hasn't seen much from the Heisei line of shows and tends to judge them based on their appearances.

 

[Nana]

Same here, people put me for down for hating Kiva. But I will stop here.

Sign me up for the Kiva haters. That **** was garbage until... about the time Nago cut the crap out around the early 30's.

 

[MrMonk]

:laugh: Can't hurt to pour out my heart and soul once more.

The things I didn't like about Kuuga and Agito was that most of the episodes were very slow-paced, and had a more soap-opera feel, and I rather zoned out. I did understand that this was when Toei started gearing the shows partly for adults (especially the more grown-up Rider fans). But then, you start to have more focus on those hot boys (for girls to drool over), their pompous gestures, and those freakin' Pokemon/Yu-Gi-Oh cards that set in!!! Ugh. I got sick after two episodes of Ryuuki (which I also thought was derivative of Mirrorman), and I could not get into the other shows beyond seeing pics and several clips. This was not the Masked Rider I grew up with.

The henshin was derivative of Mirrorman, but they took the idea much farther. Also, cards have only really been used in 3 out of 10 series, and of those, Blade was an excellent integration of the idea.

And nothing is really the ______ you grew up with. Change must come. All one can really do is have fond memories of what was and move on. Or accept and enjoy what it has become. (See: current Marvel/DC universes, Transformers: Animated, etc)

But once again, I get the feeling that you're concerned with the superficial trappings over the spirit of the show.

Godzilla will always be Godzilla, no matter how his design varies (except for the American Zilla), the newer Ultramen are still like the Ultramen of yesteryear, and as convoluted as it is now, even Super Sentai is Super Sentai (except for the fetal teen idols underneath, who wear multicolored pajamas to look "cute"). But Masked Rider? Masked Rider died, and the Metal Heroes took his place (and wear ill-fitting bug-eyes and antennae to drive the point home). I thought the Riders from Black to J were everything I pictured how Masked Rider would look in modern times (the only design I wasn't exactly too fond of was Black RX, IMHO). Slim, sleek, flexible. He's Japan's answer to Spider-Man! (And the really funny thing is that the Heisei Rider shows are a lot like the "Ultimate" Spider-Man, only imagine Spidey wearing heavy-duty armor. And I thought giving him a race car and giant transforming robot was wrong!)

I admit having no knowledge of Ultraman whatsoever.

But again, I point towards many of the Kabuto Riders as slim and sleek. Hibiki, Faiz, Kuuga, and some of Ryuki as well. That's 5 of 10 series.

But on the designs, I thought Kuuga had an okay design. He reminded me somewhat of Masked Rider Stronger, only glossy.

Kabuto was far more reminiscent of Stronger in my opinion.

I did think that the color-changing ability was derivative of the Heisei Ultramen, but it looks better now. Agito was basically a beefier version of Kuuga (sort of like Black RX; I always preferred Black over the big blocky Black RX), but again, it's just okay (even though his other color forms were waaaay too over-the-top for me!). But what I did like about Agito was the diversity: Agito himself was the standard Rider, G3 was the Riderman-type, and Gils was the "creature" Rider, like Amazon and Shin! I especially loved Another Agito, who was the closest of the bunch to the classic Riders, IMHO.

I agree, Another Agito was my favorite Agito Rider, and a clear throwback to the classic series.

Oh, and me-oh-my, I forgot to mention the "First" Masked Riders! I actually like their designs a lot, even though I really didn't like their movies. They should've been a lot better.

The First was pretty much what I expected. The Next was dire.

But I understand (overall) where you're coming from, even if I don't necessarily agree.

 

[MattComix]

:laugh: Can't hurt to pour out my heart and soul once more.

The things I didn't like about Kuuga and Agito was that most of the episodes were very slow-paced, and had a more soap-opera feel, and I rather zoned out. I did understand that this was when Toei started gearing the shows partly for adults (especially the more grown-up Rider fans). But then, you start to have more focus on those hot boys (for girls to drool over), their pompous gestures, and those freakin' Pokemon/Yu-Gi-Oh cards that set in!!! Ugh. I got sick after two episodes of Ryuuki (which I also thought was derivative of Mirrorman), and I could not get into the other shows beyond seeing pics and several clips. This was not the Masked Rider I grew up with.

The increase in blatant Bandai gimmickery was on my list as well. Though I think one of the positives of Ryuki, Faiz, and Blade were that they were trying to balance more action with the drama vibe. Riders world should be bit more dramatic and moody than Sentai or Ultra. You got secret societies striking from the shadows like Shocker or Gorgom or the monsters ready to jump at you from the darkest corners. But I agree that there are times the drama approach can grind the pace down when the writers are either being pretentious or careless. On the other hand though there's the excessive wackyness of recent series.

Godzilla will always be Godzilla, no matter how his design varies (except for the American Zilla), the newer Ultramen are still like the Ultramen of yesteryear, and as convoluted as it is now, even Super Sentai is Super Sentai (except for the fetal teen idols underneath, who wear multicolored pajamas to look "cute"). But Masked Rider? Masked Rider died, and the Metal Heroes took his place (and wear ill-fitting bug-eyes and antennae to drive the point home). I thought the Riders from Black to J were everything I pictured how Masked Rider would look in modern times (the only design I wasn't exactly too fond of was Black RX, IMHO). Slim, sleek, flexible. He's Japan's answer to Spider-Man! (And the really funny thing is that the Heisei Rider shows are a lot like the "Ultimate" Spider-Man, only imagine Spidey wearing heavy-duty armor. And I thought giving him a race car and giant transforming robot was wrong!)

When fans say that Rider have become Metal Heroes I know it's mainly in reference to the more armored look and that clearly there was some feeling on Toei's part to want to scale 2 franchises down to two but still I don't think it's a fair criticism. Kabtuo and Gavan are apples and oranges despite the presence of metal. Nothing about new Rider shows really evokes anything that the term Metal Hero actually means.

But on the designs, I thought Kuuga had an okay design. He reminded me somewhat of Masked Rider Stronger, only glossy. I did think that the color-changing ability was derivative of the Heisei Ultramen, but it looks better now. Agito was basically a beefier version of Kuuga (sort of like Black RX; I always preferred Black over the big blocky Black RX), but again, it's just okay (even though his other color forms were waaaay too over-the-top for me!). But what I did like about Agito was the diversity: Agito himself was the standard Rider, G3 was the Riderman-type, and Gils was the "creature" Rider, like Amazon and Shin! I especially loved Another Agito, who was the closest of the bunch to the classic Riders, IMHO.

People say Another Agito looks like an old-school Rider and yeah he's got some scarf action going but the evil Joker grin on him throws it all off for me. I really think that suit was designed for and should have gone to a straight up villain. Perhaps that was the intended direction for Kino at one point in the development of the show.

The only other Riders that had interesting designs were Hibiki, Kabuto, and Kiva. I'm not even going to go into the other multiple Riders on the show (too many for me, and I just can't keep up with them!), but the others are pretty dull, ugly, sometimes even incredibly laughable. Especially Den-O and his chicken leg/bra mask! I nicknamed him either "Masked Rider Chickenlegs" or "Masked Rider Hooters." And then you have Decade, who I nickname "Masked Rider Liberace," because he's pink, and has piano keys on his mask! The design was so wrong on many levels. (Damon Foster once joked about the Saban version of Black RX, as he should've been called "Masked Rider Pink RX," because of his squeaky voice!)

Man, don't even get me started on Den-O's design and yeah, Decade's Barbie dreamhouse color scheme is a really bad design choice. Kabuto I liked just in his basic form before his power ups and Bandai trinkets. Kiva is almost okay but his damn critter belt ruins it. Hibiki is just Toei putting the name on anything. I think it's an okay henshin hero design but as a Rider design it's total fail. If they want to do a show about a music based henshin hero then fine, just do that. Call it Sonic Yoma Hibiki or something. Not Kamen Rider.

Oh, and me-oh-my, I forgot to mention the "First" Masked Riders! I actually like their designs a lot, even though I really didn't like their movies. They should've been a lot better. (Toei has gotten increasingly cynical, and I sensed it when I heard about the production fiasco over the 2004 Devilman film, where the producer fired a lot of the initial crew, including master suitmaker/makeup artist Shin'ichi Wakasa!)

It boggles my friggin mind how Toei was able to do such a botch job on The First and Next movies. The First was a severe letdown and a wasted opportunity. The Next is an insult. I mean just..my God! How hard is this really? In the visual design they took the look everybody knows and loves and really refined it. They made the Kaijin look more threatening but also more akin to Rider himself to renforce the idea of the mask. OK, brilliant!

Just do the same for the actual story. Don't waste time with **** like the hospital kids and Chiaru and the utterly insulting takes on Hayato and Kazami. I mean really? Were Hayato and Shiro's origins just not good enough? Being a fey CEO with an affinity for wine. Is that what was missing from Kenzaki Shiro's character before? That's supposed to give the character a third dimension to a modern audience? Un-fucking-believable.

The movies should be full force Rider action and heroics coupled with being able to add to and expand upon a story in a way you just couldn't do on Japanese tv in 1972 with only 30 mintues, some paper mache, and a prayer. It's disgusting. Inoue should stop writing Rider stories when he clearly would rather write about something else entirely. He should combine his current quirks into one series which would be about the most wackyest, yet most angst ridden cooking contest in history.

Also, like I said before, it would be great if the Masked Rider Series took a break, like Godzilla and Ultraman have done from time to time. It'll give Toei/Bandai a little more time to come up with something fresh for the character, rather than eternally milk it out like Super Sentai and do the umpteenth rehash of Ryuuki. Sadly, that's what they're doing now, and anything that Toei/Bandai has total control of has all but become an out-of-control freight train that just wouldn't stop. I jumped safely off that train years ago, and have moved on.

But this post did ask for "Things I hate About Heisei Riders," and I got it off my chest, I hope.

Peace,

I agree about the break. Nothing in toku needs it more than Rider. Maybe Sentai but even with Sentais current problems comparably at least I think it still has much more of it's basic identity intact than Rider does.

 

[ryuuseipro]

I'd find this perfectly acceptable if he actually did see the series, from what I've gathered, he really hasn't seen much from the Heisei line of shows and tends to judge them based on their appearances.

Did I not say I saw several clips of the other shows? And I mean extensive clips. Practically whole episodes! (Yes, back then, I still cared to see them to get an opinion, after all!) Faiz, Hibiki, Kabuto, etc. They still look to me like rehashes of Ryuuki. Bishi, toy gimmickry, overdoing it, etc. Same reason I gave up on Super Sentai. I just don't have the patience to sit through any more episodes. I just can't.

Seriously, give it up, guys. Please. This is getting ridiculously infantile. While I've come to the realization that there are people out there who don't like the movies & shows I enjoy (at least they watched them), I am one of the people who unfortunately has a low opinion on newer Toei Superhero shows. I will not argue further.

 

[KingRanger]

Random clips don't make up a story

 

[Nana]

He didn't like what he saw so he stopped watching it. He doesn't need to watch a whole series to know he doesn't like it.

 

[MrMonk]

He didn't like what he saw so he stopped watching it. He doesn't need to watch a whole series to know he doesn't like it.

Correction, he's doesn't need to watch a whole series to know he does not like the part he actually watched. King's statement was merely that one cannot know he doesn't like a story's execution without partaking in the entire story.

 

[Creator]

He didn't like what he saw so he stopped watching it. He doesn't need to watch a whole series to know he doesn't like it.

Yeah, but I think it is wrong to assume that someone didn't watch an entire series to know that it's going to suck. Some fans especially older fans just have the eye for picking out the little problems in Riders especially after their years of experience in watching Rider shows. There are some who can even tell whether a series is going suck by just watching one or three episodes!

 

[Igadevil]

Yeah, but I think it is wrong to assume that someone didn't watch an entire series to know that it's going to suck. Some fans especially older fans just have the eye for picking out the little problems in Riders especially after their years of experience in watching Rider shows. There are some who can even tell whether a series is going suck by just watching one or three episodes!

I would really hope that anybody who's watched Kamen Rider for years would be open-minded enough to give a show more of a chance than that. Maybe they can decide "this probably isn't up my alley, so I'll stop watching", but that the whole show's going to suck? That's kinda harsh.