Super sentai and storytelling

I'm more annoyed at it having senselessly wasted so much of what riches it could have had. So I guess on that level they really were just like pirates.

So, after insulting Gokaiger in every thread and making out that it has no redeeming value whatsoever, you are now saying it had potential? :eyebrow: That's a bit like me saying "Hey, wasn't RPM great?"

That's what the OP's post ultimately comes down to for me. With basically every show since Geki, people have said "Goseiger/Gokaiger/Go-Busters had potential, Shinkenger had more potential, and Toei wasted it." (I don't think I've ever seen anyone say Go-onger wasted its possibilities ...) And maybe they're right. Why did Toei waste it? Because they are interested in money, not telling a good story. I will not say that Sentai "has" to be bad or that it's foolish to care about storytelling. But I think that at some point we have to acknowledge that our priorities don't match those of Toei. I sometimes wonder why a lot of us stay in the fandom or continue to watch new stuff, when it seems very unlikely that Toei is going to start valuing creativity over money. Even I am usually happy with a show if it's got one or two elements I enjoyed, yet I don't hold a lot of hope that Toei's going to make another Sentai as good as my beloved Timeranger
 
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You said it. Really? It's the other way around for Glamador. He needs the show to enjoy the merchandise.

that's what i meant.



After failing to renew its fanbase, it's like they gave up on it. Could Ultraman ever be put to a permanent retirement?



And do you think you need to buy merchandise to enjoy other franchises? Really?

no actually i watch the show first then buy the merchandise, after i watch the show and i play the episode again and play with my roleplaying stuff.
 
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Well that's a relief. Glamador doesn't play with role-playing stuff (never really did when he watched Power Rangers either, even though he had some power gloves and swords). But when watching or rewatching an episode it's fun to grab a Figuart and put it into iconic poses while viewing them.

Not so much with SICs though since A) they're bigger and harder to pose and B) Some of those buggers are fragile and Glam can't be bothered to worry about looking on the floor for some random joint piece that broke off while he's reading subtitles.

(Glamador's Taiga + Gouten came with a broken ball socket in the neck and Glam's afraid to glue it back for fear of making the joint too tight...so it just kind of sits in there w/ the neck lolling.)
 
So, after insulting Gokaiger in every thread and making out that it has no redeeming value whatsoever, you are now saying it had potential? :eyebrow:

I'm pretty sure I haven't been THAT consistently negative about it. I don't like the main five at all but there have been episodes I've liked (and said as much) in spite of them.

And yeah, on a high concept level, Gokaiger should have been a sure thing, especially after things changed to the point they could have done so much more with emphasizing the overall legacy. But that's just the difference between high concept and reality.

That's a bit like me saying "Hey, wasn't RPM great?"

I can't really say I was that big a fan of RPM either. :P
 
I'm pretty sure I haven't been THAT consistently negative about it. I don't like the main five at all but there have been episodes I've liked (and said as much) in spite of them.

Maybe not. It just sounded surprising coming from you. Next thing, I will suddenly love the Dark Kiva suit and Black Fang shall sing the praises of Go-onger ...

And yeah, on a high concept level, Gokaiger should have been a sure thing, especially after things changed to the point they could have done so much more with emphasizing the overall legacy. But that's just the difference between high concept and reality.

I think it's a good thing that a lot of past actors wanted to come back and make kids happy, but at the same time I almost wish they'd stuck to the originally planned number of tributes, or made the series more like Boukenger (although I always say I didn't like Boukenger's style.) I wanted to get to know more about the Gokaigers and their world, and it just didn't happen. I wonder if it's what frustrates others about recent Sentai. A lot of people on here have said they thought that Goseiger and Go-Busters had concepts that could have been awesome if handled differently
 
or made the series more like Boukenger (although I always say I didn't like Boukenger's style.)
I wanted to get to know more about the Gokaigers and their world, and it just didn't happen. I wonder if it's what frustrates others about recent Sentai. A lot of people on here have said they thought that Goseiger and Go-Busters had concepts that could have been awesome if handled differently

As in, another anniversary season that isn't an anniversary season at all? Well, apart from that awful and universally hated Boukenger vs Super Sentai movie. I think that was enough...

And the Gokaigers didn't really have a "world" to be explored, their world was the Super Sentai world, which got a fair exposition. The main characters all got backstories, which is more than you can say for most Sentai. And i'm pretty sure the Gokaigers characters are more popular among the fanbase than the Boukengers, anyway.
Goseiger is a better example of a Sentai that ignored its own world, which was the opposite of what Magiranger, for instance, did. But this is a very particular scenario, i don't think it's the problem with Go-Busters either.
 
I loved the flashback episodes in Gokaiger. I think a series made out of that setting is something I would have enjoyed so much. Though, given the formula Sentai goes for, I'm not sure that's sustainable over a year long series. The world presented in those flashbacks felt substantial, like it was a real, working world. It was one I always wanted to see explored to a deeper level, I think there was potential there for a huge cast of interesting characters beyond just the Gokaiger themselves.
 
As in, another anniversary season that isn't an anniversary season at all? Well, apart from that awful and universally hated Boukenger vs Super Sentai movie. I think that was enough...

And the Gokaigers didn't really have a "world" to be explored, their world was the Super Sentai world, which got a fair exposition. The main characters all got backstories, which is more than you can say for most Sentai. And i'm pretty sure the Gokaigers characters are more popular among the fanbase than the Boukengers, anyway.
Goseiger is a better example of a Sentai that ignored its own world, which was the opposite of what Magiranger, for instance, did. But this is a very particular scenario, i don't think it's the problem with Go-Busters either.

I agree with all your points here (and I really dislike Boukenger - anything's better than its Vs movie.) All the same I do wonder what Gokaiger might have been like if it had followed the original plan for only 9-10 tribute episodes.

It does annoy me when people make out the Gokaigers had NO character growth or were "just like the Goseigers." They all had an arc and something to establish them. And yes, they were stereotypes of the Ranger colour (tomboy Yellow, awkward Green, etc.) but I don't see how that's a bad thing for a series in tribute to the franchise. They're character types that have been used many times in Sentai
 
After failing to renew its fanbase, it's like they gave up on it. Could Ultraman ever be put to a permanent retirement?

I think there's too much demand for Ultraman stuff, even now. This is just a thing that happens with Ultraman, from time to time-- the show goes into a period where not a lot of original material is being made, even though older stuff is being rerun pretty steadily. The first period like this ended when Tiga went on the air, I believe. The current period will probably end whenever Tsuburaya manages to get the budget and the timeslot to support a new original TV series. In the meantime, they'll do stuff like Ultra Q Neo and Retsuden that's weird but not uninteresting.

And maybe they're right. Why did Toei waste it? Because they are interested in money, not telling a good story.

I dunno that I buy this. Toei hires living, breathing human beings to create these shows, and I don't think any creator wants to put their name on a shitty product. I don't think any Sentai series is bad on purpose. I think instead, people get overwhelmed trying to fit in all the things that they have to do, and end up without the time or energy to do anything really special with the story.

Like, I ride Go-onger pretty hard, because it's one of the few recent shows where I can't imagine it being good without literally just imagining a different show that already exists. That said, I don't think Go-onger turned out like that on purpose, or that Toei viewed it the way I do. I think a bunch of creators got together and got nostalgic about Carranger after the car theme was handed down, and decided to try and do a modern show that could entertain modern kids in the same way.

Den-O was huge at the time, so it was reasonable to think that the time was ripe for kids to really get into comedy Sentai. But between Hikasa's burnout and the usual problems of putting together a weekly TV show, they just never got around to making anything really inspired, or putting their own stamp on the material. They ended up making an inferior imitation of Carranger and Den-O both, which I'm sure nobody set out to do.

I loved the flashback episodes in Gokaiger. I think a series made out of that setting is something I would have enjoyed so much. Though, given the formula Sentai goes for, I'm not sure that's sustainable over a year long series.

Sentai has pretty much already done this. Gokaiger's approach to setting was lifted wholesale from Carranger, right down to the characters reading space newspapers about their own exploits. The only real difference is that Gokaiger treats it seriously, while Carranger used its setting to develop a lot of running gags involving various alien visitors to Earth. So where the Carrangers have a goofy fake Space Sheriff who wanders in and out of their storyline, the Gokaigers have significant interactions with the actual Space Sheriff Gavan. And where the Carrangers had to put up with weirdos like White Racer and VRV Master, the Gokaigers get their power-ups from actual Sentai heroes who can be taken seriously. You also get the Zangyack as an acutal all-consuming evil from space, where the Carrangers get a silly parody of that in Lord Exhaust.

It does annoy me when people make out the Gokaigers had NO character growth or were "just like the Goseigers."

Well, they are just like the Goseigers in that all but Red are literally characters who have already been in other shows. That's a reasonable thing to do in the context of an anniversary season, but it will invite comparison between that cast and prior casts. Gokaiger has it a bit worse, though, because the performers get painfully out-acted by just about every single returning guest stars. I think only the Gekiranger and Gaoranger eps didn't make the main five Gokaigers actively look bad in some regard, just on an acting level. I mean, the scenes between Yellow Lion and Joe? Kazuhiko Nishimura absolutely came off like he gave more of a **** about Barizorg than Yuki Yamada did.
 
I dunno that I buy this. Toei hires living, breathing human beings to create these shows, and I don't think any creator wants to put their name on a shitty product. I don't think any Sentai series is bad on purpose. I think instead, people get overwhelmed trying to fit in all the things that they have to do, and end up without the time or energy to do anything really special with the story.

Then, how would you explain Sentai's current creative slump? I'm not sure I put it down to merchandising, since most people seem to place the "toy commercial" syndrome as starting at Gaoranger and the Power Animals ...


Well, they are just like the Goseigers in that all but Red are literally characters who have already been in other shows. That's a reasonable thing to do in the context of an anniversary season, but it will invite comparison between that cast and prior casts. Gokaiger has it a bit worse, though, because the performers get painfully out-acted by just about every single returning guest stars. I think only the Gekiranger and Gaoranger eps didn't make the main five Gokaigers actively look bad in some regard, just on an acting level. I mean, the scenes between Yellow Lion and Joe? Kazuhiko Nishimura absolutely came off like he gave more of a **** about Barizorg than Yuki Yamada did.

Alas, poor Sid. I'm sure Yamada misses you somewhere in his black little heart :(

I do think each of the Gokaigers has a more defined personality than any of the Goseigers that isn't Alata, and everyone except Don has more backstory. At the very least, even at its silliest Gokaiger never gave me that "Why is Moune cheerleading?" feeling
 

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