So...I'm starting Agito and Ryuki

Black Fang said:

you can't seriously say the Den-O girls were any better.

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well I think I can, comparing to the Kiva girls. and the girl from W

the W girl is just plain annoying, I only watched 5 episodes, so I will compare it to the other 5 first episodes of Kiva and Den-O

the W girl does not contribute at all. she is just there because...I guess toku needs a female character. she is unnecessary.

Hana from Den-O, she was helpful and at least she explains why she hates imagin. so she hits imagin, better than slaping somone with a green sandal.
but Hana never got in Ryotaro's way.

Kiva girls. they were alright, one was Wataru's friend that helped him, the other was a girl that got involved with Wataru and became friends. and last girl was Wataru's girlfriend who was a Fangire, they were not annoying like Hana. and they played a good role in the story

Ryuki was a mixed bag for me.

I liked the whole idea with the Rider War, because up until Ryuki, we never really had any Riders who used their powers for their own personal gain. All previous evil Riders had either been mind-controlled or tricked into fighting other Riders.
Agito had been experimenting with this concept, by introducing Another-Agito, but even there we had some mind-fucking going on. They never took the full step in having a Rider who was evil by his own choice.

Then Ryuki aired, and they finally decided to take the full step and introduce a new group of Riders who abused their powers, and were willing to kill for their own personal gains.
There were no misunderstandings; there was no mind-control. The Riders didn't turn best-buddies near the end. Most of them died with no regrets.

Another thing I absolutely loved about Ryuki, was the fact that almost every type of personality was introduced with the different Riders. You had everyday-people: poor, rich, criminals, scientists, workers etc. who were given super-powers and a promise to fill their greatest desires.
If Kamen Riders were real, I think they would be closest to the Ryuki Riders.

The "hero" simply doesn’t exist. Shinji thought that he could be a super-hero, like the good ol' Kamen Rider type that we knew from previous Rider shows. "Fight for justice! Protect everyone! Stop the war!"
But as "realistic" as Ryuki was, Shinji learned the hard way that the real world is not like a comic book or a TV-show. Everyone has to make a choice and you can't just make everything good. At some point you have to get your hands dirty too, and you will have to face that reality is cold and brutal.

As much as people hated Ren and his viewpoints, you have to admit that he was absolutely right in most things he said.

There were things I didn’t like though - The ending obviously. I don’t think most people liked that. Luckily Episode Final made up for it.
Another thing I didn’t like was the fact that Shinji kept going in circles. He would get all depressed and ask himself “Why do I fight?†Even though he would find the answer, he would ask the exact same question again a few episodes later.
“Protect people from monsters and stop the Rider warâ€. He said that in some of the very first episodes, yet the writers made it seem like a big revelation when he came to the same conclusion in the last episodes.

Black Fang said:

How were the Den-O females better? Hana is just a one-trick pony who far outlasts her welcome with her constant slap-the-Imajin-and-try-to-look-tough-doing it schtick. It gets even worse when she shrinks to kid size. And Naomi and Airi? Those brainless idiots who makes drugged coffee and smile 24/7 as though theyres on happy pills are an example of competent females to you? I'm not that fond of Akiko myself, but come on, you can't seriously say the Den-O girls were any better.

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Well, I'm only on episode 11 of Den-O, so I haven't gotten to the Hanako stuff yet, but so far, she seems mostly reasonable with her actions, especially considering her history, and her reactions to Kintaro and the concept of a selfless Imajin really helped flesh out her character. Airi doesn't bug me too much, as she doesn't really show up enough to do so. Naomi does bug me, but she's such a non-character that I can ignore her. So yeah, I'd take those three over Akiko easily.

Oh, and I don't consider western superheroes kiddy stuff just to sell products to children. I consider them forcefully "mature" stuff to sell toys and other merchandise to immature adults. And I say this as a huge comic fan.

m121akuma said:

Well, I'm only on episode 11 of Den-O, so I haven't gotten to the Hanako stuff yet, but so far, she seems mostly reasonable with her actions, especially considering her history, and her reactions to Kintaro and the concept of a selfless Imajin really helped flesh out her character. Airi doesn't bug me too much, as she doesn't really show up enough to do so. Naomi does bug me, but she's such a non-character that I can ignore her. So yeah, I'd take those three over Akiko easily.

Oh, and I don't consider western superheroes kiddy stuff just to sell products to children. I consider them forcefully "mature" stuff to sell toys and other merchandise to immature adults. And I say this as a huge comic fan.

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I'm an adult and I buy figures and toys, not because of the show, because they are simple cool. I don't need to watch a show to buy merchandise

so hopefully this will take me out of the immature adults list

m121akuma said:

Well, I'm only on episode 11 of Den-O, so I haven't gotten to the Hanako stuff yet, but so far, she seems mostly reasonable with her actions, especially considering her history, and her reactions to Kintaro and the concept of a selfless Imajin really helped flesh out her character.

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Only for one or two episodes. Most of time all she does is whack Imajins and pretend she's all that. And has terrible wardrobe sense with that hideous black skirt of hers...

m121akuma said:

Oh, and I don't consider western superheroes kiddy stuff just to sell products to children. I consider them forcefully "mature" stuff to sell toys and other merchandise to immature adults. And I say this as a huge comic fan.

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So in other words, you don't hold the Western heroes with much regard either, despite how you claim to be a fan. I like the Western heroes and buy some of the merchandise (usually DVDs). By your reasoning I must be immature.

Why is liking superhero media somehow akin to not being "adult"? What is with so many people in this fandom apparently being ashamed of being toku fans while pretending to be gung-ho about it? Because some idiots happen to act immaturely? That doesn't say anything about the rest of us. It's bad enough when laymen make remarks against fans, but when so-called fans themselves begin degrading their fellow fans and the genre, it's even more offensive. Why do you consider Western heores "forcefully mature" yet not Eastern heroes? Are you aware of what certain tokus have done over the years in terms of content?

Black Fang said:

So in other words, you don't hold the Western heroes with much regard either, despite how you claim to be a fan. I like the Western heroes and buy some of the merchandise (usually DVDs). By your reasoning I must be immature.

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I'm sorry, I was getting frustrated with some irate comic fans at the time, so I took it out on you. I actually hold superheroes in high regard, and there's nothing wrong with being a fan. Fanboys, on the other hand....*shudder*

That and I had recently read an analysis of Dark Knight Strikes Again. Hence where the "forcefully mature" comment came from. I hate Miller post-DKR.

m121akuma said:

I'm sorry, I was getting frustrated with some irate comic fans at the time, so I took it out on you. I actually hold superheroes in high regard, and there's nothing wrong with being a fan. Fanboys, on the other hand....*shudder*

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Oh yes. Beware, they exist en masse around these parts >.>

m121akuma said:

That and I had recently read an analysis of Dark Knight Strikes Again. Hence where the "forcefully mature" comment came from. I hate Miller post-DKR.

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I'm afraid I'm not too familiar with that stuff.

Black Fang said:

I'm afraid I'm not too familiar with that stuff.

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Thank your lucky stars. Basically, he likes to write everything as a gritty noir story whether it needs to be or not. Most recently, he wrote All Star Batman and Robin, in which Batman is a child abusing psychopath who purposefully endangers others, loves to talk about how badass he is, and refers to himself as "The Goddamn Batman".

Oh, and Miller doesn't know how to write women who aren't prostitutes, either figuratively or literally.

...I didn't know the topic would get so many replies...I was expecting 5, maybe 6, then the topic would die...

^^;

For Agito, Just click this for my comment about it.

For Ryuki... Ryuki is a mixbag for me. First, the Rider War concept is pretty amazing. It is like a cock fight less the cocks! The show at first, is pretty boring, until Scissors died, this where the action started kicking off. The good thing about Ryuki is that all Riders have a reason to fight. The only negative that I can say about Ryuki is Shiro Kanzaki's Reset Button. Seriously, this is a battle royale! Just remove the damn reset button and we have the bext battle royale themed Kamen Rider.