Seitai fans: is the series getting weaker?

[SquidKing]

I am getting so tired of seeing this completely unfair question, whether it's for Sentai, Kamen Rider, or ANY franchise.

NO!
None of these franchises are getting weaker with the times. They are ADAPTING to the times, and if any of us want to call ourselves fans, so should we.

It's not really fair to compare old stuff to new stuff. If you do that, of course you'll see things they don't do as much today. From how they film fights and choreography to plots and characterizations. Things change over time. The industry changes. What's allowed on TV (especially a kid's show) changes. Sometimes there may be more limits on what they can and cannot do, sometimes the toy companies put their feet down and say "throw all these toy promotions in there!", but all that is just a challenge to see how creative the writers and the actors can get. True creativity can find its way around limitations. We as fans need to stop being so judgmental and adapt with the times. If we keep expecting things to go back to the way things use to be, we're only going to get disappointed every time. That's not how things work.

Maybe it's not the best example, but look at me! I keep my expectations low. All I want is to have fun with what I'm watching. That's all. And often times, the series I am watching will deliver on that and then some. And if we haven't watched the show in its entirety, then we shouldn't judge it as a whole. I don't often watch Power Rangers, but I do my best to make it VERY clear that I stop because "it's not for me". I don't stop near the beginning and claim the entire production to be crap just because I don't like it. Who am I to make that kind of judgement call? Who is ANYONE to make that kind of judgement call?



I second that.
I don't know if Super Sentai really is the best, but I like to think of it as an acquired taste. Kind of like how there are fans of Superman, even though most people think of him as the Gary Stu of superheroes.

Saying a series is getting weaker isn't the same as saying it's adapting to a new medium. I think it's fairly safe to say that Kamen Rider (my favorite entertainment franchise of all time) has gotten weaker overall, whereas Gaim still broke the rest of history in its story and impact. I think Toku Prime hit on one of the most important aspects here: all the series are pushing story back for toy tie-ins more and more. I'm watching Heisei KR now, and the toy aspect simply isn't there. Now that toy-ism isn't always bad: I think the Ghost changes so far are pretty good. Seems like W and Wizard were in the same category. Drive, OOO, and to a lesser extent Gaim suffered for cramming in more products.

My general question was about the overall quality of the series, which I think everyone can probably have a different opinion of it. That doesn't disqualify the question.

 

[SquidKing]

Weaker? Not neccessarily.

More focused on catering to the core child audience since they lost the other demographics? Yeah.

More focused on selling toys? Well with the weakening yen making it more expensive to make TV shows, requiring a larger budget, and Bandai wanting to maintain a similar return on the money that they put into the show (combined with that weaken yen meaning there's less profit within each individual toy), yes, but only to the point that the viewers' parents' finances can take. There's no point in making more toys than they can afford to buy.

Does that result in the show being tailored in a way that means there's less of what adult, less toy-orientated Western fans want? Well probably.

Will that ever change? Well if one series lucks out and grabs a big chunk of another demographic, or (more likely) if the value of the yen booms and lightens the commercial pressure on the franchise, probably so.

Sentai has always evolved in such a way as to keep the show going whatever the conditions it found itself in. It will probably continue to do so. Whether that matches up with what it's accidental fanbase (us) wants is kinda arbitrary. Besides, our own little fandom here keeps evolving anyway as people come and go, and tastes similarly change.

For what it's worth, I really enjoyed watching Kyoryuger. ToQ and Ninnin haven't replicated that vibe, but if another Sentai can in the future then I'd be very happy. So I haven't given up on modern Sentai just yet.

Yen booming is probably 30 years off at best. The new tax code goes into effect next year, and it's going to kill us even more. They're actually starting a membership card for shopping in Japan, where you get points and cash back for buying anything. Guh.

 

[Captain Shark]

but it's not like Kamen Rider's in any better shape.

And as a fan of Ultraman and Gundam it hasn't been better this decade. With Ultraman, ever since Mebius was finished there have been two spin off alternate universe sequels that lasted for one course (Ultraseven X and Neo Ultra Q), the Ultra Galaxy spinoff series which were two courses and split, the Ultraman Zero trilogy, those three online short series (Ultra Zero Fight seasons 1 and 2 and Ultra Victory Fight), two short series (aka Ginga), and the currently airing X which will likely be two course. Granted the anime industry rarely has series that aren't one or two courses due to budget reasons so toku being similar isn't surprising, but compared to sentai and rider, the Ultra franchise has been struggling. Any Ultra fan will inform you how obnoxious the suit recycling has gotten, making a lot of the post-Mebius stuff stale and very hard for newcomers to enter due to the sheer amount of continuity. Then there is Gundam, after 00 ran its course with the 2010 movie it has been hitting hard times: Age bombed horrifically (no Thielva high grade ever makes me a sad bear), Build Fighters Try didn't do amazingly in gunpla sales and was a huge disappointment for fans, G-Reco got panned by critics with general audiences very confused, Unicorn had production issues which endlessly delayed and stretched episodes (and Code Geass is taking a similar approach), and IBO is kind of repulsive (I have no idea about general consensus on this). There was Build Fighters, but lets be honest that isn't the best representation of the franchise. Cosmic Era revitalized Gundam in Japan while 00 brought in high gunpla sales despite fans complaining about seasonal split stuff after Tomino tried to destroy the franchise with Turn A (and thankfully he didn't because that would have been a sour note to end on). Everyone is complaining.

 

[Jacky392000]

I don't know if the franchise is getting weaker or the production team is just growing dry of ideas/creativity. in the past 10 years (the Hurricanger~Magiranger era was the peak of the franchise IMO), I've only enjoyed Goseiger, Gokaiger and ToQger so far. then came along Ninninger... which I haven't been watching since Episode 10 and I don't see myself getting back into it at all even when it ends, which subsequently makes me feel very anxious about how the actual 40th anniversary series would turn out. if it doesn't turn out good, I might give up watching Sentai entirely. maybe I'm just more interested in watching J-dramas and other stuff these days. *shrugs*

 

[SquidKing]

And as a fan of Ultraman and Gundam it hasn't been better this decade. With Ultraman, ever since Mebius was finished there have been two spin off alternate universe sequels that lasted for one course (Ultraseven X and Neo Ultra Q), the Ultra Galaxy spinoff series which were two courses and split, the Ultraman Zero trilogy, those three online short series (Ultra Zero Fight seasons 1 and 2 and Ultra Victory Fight), two short series (aka Ginga), and the currently airing X which will likely be two course. Granted the anime industry rarely has series that aren't one or two courses due to budget reasons so toku being similar isn't surprising, but compared to sentai and rider, the Ultra franchise has been struggling. Any Ultra fan will inform you how obnoxious the suit recycling has gotten, making a lot of the post-Mebius stuff stale and very hard for newcomers to enter due to the sheer amount of continuity. Then there is Gundam, after 00 ran its course with the 2010 movie it has been hitting hard times: Age bombed horrifically (no Thielva high grade ever makes me a sad bear), Build Fighters Try didn't do amazingly in gunpla sales and was a huge disappointment for fans, G-Reco got panned by critics with general audiences very confused, Unicorn had production issues which endlessly delayed and stretched episodes (and Code Geass is taking a similar approach), and IBO is kind of repulsive (I have no idea about general consensus on this). There was Build Fighters, but lets be honest that isn't the best representation of the franchise. Cosmic Era revitalized Gundam in Japan while 00 brought in high gunpla sales despite fans complaining about seasonal split stuff after Tomino tried to destroy the franchise with Turn A (and thankfully he didn't because that would have been a sour note to end on). Everyone is complaining.

Unicorn was incredible though.

 

[SquidKing]

I don't know if the franchise is getting weaker or the production team is just growing dry of ideas/creativity. in the past 10 years (the Hurricanger~Magiranger era was the peak of the franchise IMO), I've only enjoyed Goseiger, Gokaiger and ToQger so far. then came along Ninninger... which I haven't been watching since Episode 10 and I don't see myself getting back into it at all even when it ends, which subsequently makes me feel very anxious about how the actual 40th anniversary series would turn out. if it doesn't turn out good, I might give up watching Sentai entirely. maybe I'm just more interested in watching J-dramas and other stuff these days. *shrugs*

We all grow out of stuff, right? I can barely even play video games anymore, and that used to be my whole thing.

 

[Sentaifan'07 Xman]

I don't think Sentai is getting weaker.....I feel that the production side (producers and writers mainly) isn't putting much of an effort. The only 2 shows I've disliked so far has been Go-Busters and Toqger because both shows was just absolutely boring to me and I'm praying that Kobayashi won't return for Juuouger. Also I'm in the minority but I like Ninninger and I feel it's biggest problem is that outside of Kyuemon, the Kibaoni Generals isn't that interesting at all.

You're not alone, I too feel like I'm a part of the minority that's enjoying Ninninger so far. But yeah, I think production-wise. Most of the Sentais recently after Gokaiger are lacking a lot of effort being put into it.

 

[Black Fang]

At least Ultraman hasn't suffered in its storytelling: I honestly think it's the only show that still really feels like a superhero show on a consistent basis. Even though I like Kamen Rider the most out of the "big four" (Rider, Sentai, Ultra, Metal Hero), it and Sentai these days often just go through the motions of superhero media without having any "heart". Plus the wacky "ripped from the cartoons" hijinks that pass for humor these days are just insufferable.

 

[Khaiden]

That seems very unlikely given how successful Tori Matsuzaka has become in Japan. Even if Toei could get him back, he'd be too expensive for them

Then have Kaoru as the leader!

I am getting so tired of seeing this completely unfair question, whether it's for Sentai, Kamen Rider, or ANY franchise.

NO!
None of these franchises are getting weaker with the times. They are ADAPTING to the times, and if any of us want to call ourselves fans, so should we.

If anything, Sentai seems like it's behind the times with its constant repeating of themes we've seen before, and still not giving us new stuff like female greens/blacks or other colors for the main team. Hearing the motif for next year's has put me in the "cautiously pessimistic" territory. I used to think we would get a year of new ground-breaking content followed by a year of traditional themes. (e.g. Go-Busters -> Kyoryuger, then ToQGer -> Ninninger).
I was hoping the color changes we got in Gokaiger and ToQGer was a step forward. Hopefully a degree of this happens again for the next series or the one after that.

Sometimes there may be more limits on what they can and cannot do, sometimes the toy companies put their feet down and say "throw all these toy promotions in there!", but all that is just a challenge to see how creative the writers and the actors can get.

I think they just do it because it's what sells or what might seem amusing for them to do. Somestimes it can be a chellenge, yes, but that's not the reason why they do it. There's still the infamous story that Bandai forced the fruit motif on the Gaim producers and Toei is apparently in no position to say no to whatever Bandai wants the toys to be.

True creativity can find its way around limitations. We as fans need to stop being so judgmental and adapt with the times. If we keep expecting things to go back to the way things use to be, we're only going to get disappointed every time. That's not how things work.

Interestingly enough, Kamen Rider in this Next-Decade/After-Decade era has gone back in many ways to how things used to be:

-They started reusing the "Kamen Rider" name in the series themselves (not all, of course), and many times has been given meaning rather than just being something they slap onto any person with a superpowered belt.
-The series are interconnected.
-Gaim reintroduced a series with multiple Riders. This series is also a good example of what you said: "True creativity can find its way around limitations."

And Super Sentai, well... as I said, there's not much to go back to because they haven't changed that much in 40 years.

 

[Kivat]

At least Ultraman hasn't suffered in its storytelling: I honestly think it's the only show that still really feels like a superhero show on a consistent basis. Even thought I like Kamen Rider the most out of the "big four" (Rider, Sentai, Ultra, Metal Hero), it and Sentai these days often just go through the motions of superhero media without having any "heart". Plus the wacky "ripped from the cartoons" hijinks that pass for humor these days are just insufferable.

Agreed. Sentai is adapting, but I feel it is getting weaker before my eyes. To say there hasn't been a steady decline? I mean it shows within the board. Episode conversations are minimal.

To the people that enjoy Ninninger, you still say that they lack something that hasn't been seen in awhile, but it isn't weaker; I'm sure that doesn't make it stronger or consistent. I remember way back when, Go-onger and Goseiger became a struggle to watch, but at least I finished them. I drop series super early now, because they have a cookie-cutter unique to the decade or so that I am just not feeling.

I do also entertain the idea that maybe I'm just burnt out, and just have Sentai fatigue. I never really thought I'd stop playing NBA 2k games, but I most definitely did. I think in terms of media I'm just appreciating the fact that if it takes a bit longer to complete a product than I'd rather wait for a proper meal, than get fast food.