Ryuki fans step up!

[musashi03]

In this thread, and others like it, I have not seen anyone say anything like the above. There is no in show proof that what you say happened. It is just your personal feelings and opinions about how the show ended. There is no point to miss.

It seems you need imagination, since you solely rely on whatever the writers spoon feed you. These kinds of shows were made to entertain and at some point encourage imagination.

The point you missed was that Shinji has a unique trait which is his stubbornness, which is why he's the titular character and not Ren, which is why he's part of the game even though he's completely different from the rest of the players. He's a wild card, he was during the game, and he can still be even after, that's why he's the main character, and too bad you lack the comprehension to understand his real role.

 

[Darkster]

Well of course Kobayashi is ultimately responsible, she's the writer. We're talking about within the story. Your argument does not work because it's Kanzaki who decides to end it all.

You do realize that my comments arent just for you to claim "invalid arguments" just because you do not agree with them agreeing with you?

You missed my point. He wanted to be a hero by killing Yui and saving everyone from the Monsters. Then all of a sudden he wants to save Yui without any real explanation, yet his goal remains the same. He has no personal connection to Yui, there was no reason for him to "defect" from Kagawa.

You missed the point. He wants to do something a hero does because he wants to be a hero. He believes that it is a hero's duty to sacrifice for the better good. He does not realize what true sacrifice is and he just goes "sacrificing" whatever he can get. When he is convinced that saving Yui will make him a hero, he decides not to kill her. He still believes that a hero must sacrifice what he loves the most and he kills Kagawa.

I'm not following you here. Shinji did change the course of the War. So how would not resetting time devalue him?

It per se does not devalue him as much as it devalues his actions. What will his actions have done if he dies and the War continues until one is left? His goal was to stop the killings between Riders and to stop the war altogether. Allowing Ren to emerge as the last Rider would not allow Shinji's actions to change much. He managed to hold off Kanzaki's plans long enough for him to realize what he had done. Kanzaki realized that his plan was never going to be accepted by Yui and he allowed everything to return to the things they were before he started the senseless war.

 

[Black Fang]

You do realize that my comments arent just for you to claim "invalid arguments" just because you do not agree with them agreeing with you?

Except it is invalid, as I just demonstrated. Saying he sacrificed forged friendships to bring everyone back doesn't work because Kanzaki wasn't anyone's friend.

You missed the point. He wants to do something a hero does because he wants to be a hero. He believes that it is a hero's duty to sacrifice for the better good. He does not realize what true sacrifice is and he just goes "sacrificing" whatever he can get. When he is convinced that saving Yui will make him a hero, he decides not to kill her. He still believes that a hero must sacrifice what he loves the most and he kills Kagawa.

But everything up to Kagawa's death was pointing to Toujou realizing Kagawa's "hypocrisy" of prioritizing his family over the mission. If he had killed Kagawa for that reason and continued doing his will, that would have actually made sense.

It per se does not devalue him as much as it devalues his actions. What will his actions have done if he dies and the War continues until one is left?

But Shinji didn't end the war anyway. He died and Ren was left to fight Odin and win. What Shinji did do was constantly be the monkey wrench in Kanzaki's gears, and saved lives that would otherwise have been lost to Kanzaki's insanity.

What if Shinji had been the last Rider and killed Odin?

His goal was to stop the killings between Riders and to stop the war altogether. Allowing Ren to emerge as the last Rider would not allow Shinji's actions to change much. He managed to hold off Kanzaki's plans long enough for him to realize what he had done. Kanzaki realized that his plan was never going to be accepted by Yui and he allowed everything to return to the things they were before he started the senseless war.

But Kanzaki lost anyway, even with Shinji dead. Ren did emerge as the last Rider. Shinji's impact on the course of events would still remain regardless of his death. Would you say Abraham Lincoln's efforts to preserve/restore the US were all for naught simply because he died before Reconstruction ended?

 

[Darkster]

Except it is invalid, as I just demonstrated. Saying he sacrificed forged friendships to bring everyone back doesn't work because Kanzaki wasn't anyone's friend.

You didn't demonstrate anything. :laugh: You're just jumping to your own conclusions now.

But everything up to Kagawa's death was pointing to Toujou realizing Kagawa's "hypocrisy" of prioritizing his family over the mission. If he had killed Kagawa for that reason and continued doing his will, that would have actually made sense.

He did realize that Kagawa was a hypocrite. He combined that with his idea of "sacrificing" and he killed him for it. He just continued trying to be a hero without what held back Kagawa. He continued without something he loved.

But Shinji didn't end the war anyway. He died and Ren was left to fight Odin and win. What Shinji did do was constantly be the monkey wrench in Kanzaki's gears, and saved lives that would otherwise have been lost to Kanzaki's insanity.

What if Shinji had been the last Rider and killed Odin?

Shinji wouldn't have wanted to be the last Rider when the time came. Shinji fought for the people in the War and the people outside it as well. Yui shows Kanzaki that he should stop because of what has happened. Shinji dies trying to save people, and Ren becomes a killer to save the one he loves. Yui shows Shiro that there's no point to the War because she will not accept it and he sets back the lives of the Riders. Shiro knows what he has done, but he does change for Yui. Whether good or bad, the change is for Yui. The wishes and the strong desires are returned to the way they were. Kanzaki realizes his war is senseless in the eyes of Yui and he returns the lives the way they used to be. His power to win the war is used to end it.

But Kanzaki lost anyway, even with Shinji dead. Ren did emerge as the last Rider. Shinji's impact on the course of events would still remain regardless of his death. Would you say Abraham Lincoln's efforts to preserve/restore the US were all for naught simply because he died before Reconstruction ended?

Shinji's actions and Yui's actions led him to the conclusion. He would have learned nothing from it if he continued. This has nothing to do with Lincoln.

 

[musashi03]

Except it is invalid, as I just demonstrated. Saying he sacrificed forged friendships to bring everyone back doesn't work because Kanzaki wasn't anyone's friend.

It was Yui's decision in a sense, since she knows everybody is connected because of her, and that people were killed because of her, because of a false assumption her brother made.

And you seem to also forget that both Yui and Shiro were not ordinary human beings, for all we know they're as powerful as the Overlord in Agito, hence being able to control people's fates and time itself, since I get the impression that you guys can't accept that fact that an ordinary human being was able to decide whether to severe their experiences and bonded friendships.

 

[Darkster]

I might make some pixel art of Ryuki one of these days. I've just been feeling a bit depressed. When it rains, I'll get my inspiration. I know that people get all depressed and whatnot when it rains, but it's quite good for when I make things.

 

[mmartina]

Ryuki is my Favorite Kamen Rider Series & Favorite Kamen Rider is Ouja

 

[Darkster]

That's cool. Why is Ouja your favorite Rider?

 

[Forever Knight]

Who's established? The fans? That doesn't make it show canon. That just makes it fan fiction.

Right. But there is NO other reason for the reset except that. It just makes sense. I have a sibling and it's something I would have done if I was Shiro.

 

[Wing Saber]

Which showed how desperate Shiro was when it came saving Yui. To the point where he didn't care if he sacrificed the Riders & innocent people. But that never said he was evil, just misguided in his attempts.

Even if Eri was saved, it wouldn't mattered since Shiro had his finger on the reset button. In fact Shinji, Ren, & the Riders were nothing but playing pieces for his game. Which is the reason why nothing good came out of it.