Ryuki fans step up!

[Seven Year Itch]

Ryuki was the first rider show that i watched and because of that,i became a fan of the series. it may not be my favorite,or the worst.but i will always have a soft spot for this show for introducing me to the rider series.

 

[Wing Saber]

Unlike the other Rider shows, Ryuki was more on the greyish side than black & white. Not to mention there was no real battle for justice. Just a need to fight for a wish.

Shiro was a desperate man trying to save his sister, to the point where he would sacrifice both Riders & innocent people for it. Not to mention that he would reset everything if he didn't get the outcome that he wanted. Thus puting everyone into a repeating hell. Even Shinji, though he opposed Shiro was nothing more but a playing piece since there has to be a wildcard.

 

[KingRanger]

Unlike the other Rider shows, Ryuki was more on the greyish side than black & white. Not to mention there was no real battle for justice. Just a need to fight for a wish.

Shiro was a desperate man trying to save his sister, to the point where he would sacrifice both Riders & innocent people for it. Not to mention that he would reset everything if he didn't get the outcome that he wanted. Thus puting everyone into a repeating hell. Even Shinji, though he opposed Shiro was nothing more but a playing piece since there has to be a wildcard.

Sorry but there was a battle for justice. That was what Shinji was there for. He fought to save people, and to save the other riders from themselves.

 

[Darkster]

Unlike the other Rider shows, Ryuki was more on the greyish side than black & white. Not to mention there was no real battle for justice. Just a need to fight for a wish.

Shiro was a desperate man trying to save his sister, to the point where he would sacrifice both Riders & innocent people for it. Not to mention that he would reset everything if he didn't get the outcome that he wanted. Thus puting everyone into a repeating hell. Even Shinji, though he opposed Shiro was nothing more but a playing piece since there has to be a wildcard.

That's interesting that you should post that which I bolded. There's a line in the final episode that says "there is no justice in this battle" or something like that.

Shinji did change things. Tezuka acknowledged that he would be the one who could change the outcome of the war so he sacrificed himself for Shinji.

 

[Wing Saber]

Sorry but there was a battle for justice. That was what Shinji was there for. He fought to save people, and to save the other riders from themselves.

I would have agreed with that if Shiro didn't press the reset button everytime the outcome didn't go his way.

 

[Black Fang]

That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Darkster]

I have to agree with Black Fang on this one. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Wing Saber]

Everytime Shiro resets things, it forces Shinji to repeatedly oppose him in a neverending loop to where there's no end. It finally stopped when Shiro finally accepted Yui's request.

 

[musashi03]

I'm aware of that. But in this instance you're labeling the "haters" (and I don't really hate the finale so much as think it could or should have been done differently) as people who can't understand Kobayashi's "genius".

Ok, but several people like me who appreciates the reset know the genius behind it. I mean it was already hinted in the first Time Vent that such and event could happen, it was just left for us viewers to interpret what could happen after the final reset, which is where Shinji's special trait comes in. So the ending doesn't necessarily cancel out everything that happened, especially if Shinji remembers it (which is very likely), so the characters has the chance to regain forgotten friendships because a man named Shinji is stubborn enough to remind everyone as he was stubborn enough to stop everyone from killing each other. The reset wasn't a dead-end, it's just another window to a lot of possibilities.

The Mirror World and origins of the Advent Cards aren't really "supernatural" though. There was a lot of real inter-dimensional science involved, as we saw with Lab 401 and Kanzaki's old classmates. The Overlord is downright supernatural. Kanzaki isn't.

I'm not saying Shiro is exactly the same as the Overlord, all I'm saying is that they both have the same category in a show, having some sort of powers which makes them above humanity. That "inter-dimensional" science isn't an exact science at this point mind you, it's still all theories, so it's basically unproven yet. That Lab 401 part of Ryuki is just an attempt to show that the enemy their dealing with can be replicated (which isn't true in the real world at this moment at all), it's just an attempt to make it seem like Shiro's state can be reached, even though they clearly weren't able to go as far as controlling time itself, not just in the Mirror World.

But... I'm not advocating that the show should have been about Ren. If Shinji had not been the titular character the point of the show (and unique take on the classic Rider premise) would have been lost. So I don't know where you're coming from here.

Because I get from what you've been saying that the efforts of Ren to save Eri was wasted and that Shiro wasn't able to face the consequences of his actions. I get that, but the show is about how Shinji could correct all of these due to his persistence, which is just left to our imagination in the form of a finale reset. People always interpreted the show to be about Ren's journey to save his girlfriend, but it was ultimately about how Shinji affects everybody, that's why he's connected to everyone and why we always have scenes of him trying to convince each and every single Kamen Rider with his principles, because it was about that, and not merely about some guy saving his loved-one. Ren's story was just a part of the puzzle, and Shinji is the whole frame of the puzzle.

So we're basically in agreement on Kanzaki's nature, what is the problem?

I would still say that without the reset Ren would have just continued to live and things eventually would return to normal. Only Ren and ORE Journal would bear the burden of what they experienced.

As for the events of 13 Riders, Shinji did "prematurely" destroy the main mirror and end the Game (before it could play out fully). In essence he "cheated", allowing Kanzaki to start the Game over again so it could play out properly.

You've misquoted these answers since you accidentally quoted it on me.

But to answer some of your points, I think if there were no reset button, then it would basically just be like any other Rider show with them living through the end with all of their experiences and all. The reset is what made Ryuki's ending unique, and wishing it would have been any other ending doesn't do it the justice it deserves since it wasn't out of the blue, it was already hinted with the first Time Vent card.

 

[Black Fang]

I'm not saying Shiro is exactly the same as the Overlord, all I'm saying is that they both have the same category in a show, having some sort of powers which makes them above humanity. That "inter-dimensional" science isn't an exact science at this point mind you, it's still all theories, so it's basically unproven yet. That Lab 401 part of Ryuki is just an attempt to show that the enemy their dealing with can be replicated (which isn't true in the real world at this moment at all), it's just an attempt to make it seem like Shiro's state can be reached, even though they clearly weren't able to go as far as controlling time itself, not just in the Mirror World.

But the Overlord is clearly a god/demon/supernatural entity. Kanzanki is just that, a human with "unexpected" abilities.

Because I get from what you've been saying that the efforts of Ren to save Eri was wasted and that Shiro wasn't able to face the consequences of his actions.

When did I say Ren's efforts were wasted?

I get that, but the show is about how Shinji could correct all of these due to his persistence, which is just left to our imagination in the form of a finale reset. People always interpreted the show to be about Ren's journey to save his girlfriend, but it was ultimately about how Shinji affects everybody, that's why he's connected to everyone and why we always have scenes of him trying to convince each and every single Kamen Rider with his principles, because it was about that, and not merely about some guy saving his loved-one. Ren's story was just a part of the puzzle, and Shinji is the whole frame of the puzzle.

I've only ever seen a few people say Ryuki should have been about Ren, so I still don't know what you're talking about here, as though they're some great majority. I've never said that, and it really has nothing to do with the topic.

But to answer some of your points, I think if there were no reset button, then it would basically just be like any other Rider show with them living through the end with all of their experiences and all.

And what would be wrong with that? Ryuki already is a unique show with its content. A finale where we make believe it never happened except for the scant possibility that Shinji remembers everything (and you're the only person I've ever seen say that so I wonder if it was truly Kobayashi's point) isn't going to make it more unique. It's just going to make it all look more pointless, since Kanzaki can just do whatever he wants if things go wrong.

The reset is what made Ryuki's ending unique, and wishing it would have been any other ending doesn't do it the justice it deserves since it wasn't out of the blue, it was already hinted with the first Time Vent card.

But see, I don't think most people who dislike the finale were fond of that Time Vent episode either (as it involves the same issue of Kanzaki just resetting everything whenever something goes wrong instead of failing once and accepting reality. You keep saying it reinforced Shinji's stubborn nature but..... that's been established since the beginning. Shinji's stubbornness is the reason he's fighting against Kanzaki at all). You're making it sound like they didn't mind one but hated the other.