Overtime Subs is no good

[KingRanger]

There is some tumblr blog that screencaps every mistranslation in TV-Nihon's subs, but I don't remember the name of it.

http://onoretvn.tumblr.com/

 

[Solari]

Although, I will comment that both of the groups messed up with Koyomi's line on Kamen Rider Wizard 44. In the Cold Opening, Koyomi asks Haurto "What?" when he states at her for a couple of seconds. TV-Nihon has "What's wrong?" and Over-Time has "...What is it?", all she said is, "What?", nothing more and nothing less.

It's unnatural for native English speakers just to say "What?" and nothing else, especially in that context.

It's typical for translations to "add context" to try and convey the tone of the original line translation. Both TVN and OT's interpretations are doing this. Just saying "What?" in English is kind of ambiguous, but usually implies that the speaker is concerned with something they've personally said/done. It's often said in annoyance or in a defensive way. In Japanese, it's a more neutral statement, and probably nobody would make that assumption.

I haven't even seen this episode, but judging from how TVN and OT did it, both translators wanted it to be clear that Koyomi was concerned with the person she was addressing, Haruto, and not herself. A big part of translation is making sure your audience interprets the material in the right way. Doing a literal translation that accidentally made Koyomi sound selfish or defensive would be thoroughly at odds with her character.

I agree with Lynxara. Japanese has a lot of context which is left unsaid but only implied. People who are familiar with the language and culture can pick up on it. However, people from other cultures can be more straightforward and they would need the context to be more defined in order to fully understand the situation.

 

[Dr Kain]

BTW, anyone laugh at the person complaining about OT using bad translations does not even have their topic title grammatically correct?

 

[NAND NOR]

I feel as if a translator is supposed to translate and nothing more. It is a concerned "What?", Koyomi was asking what Haurto was doing with such a focused look on his face. By adding the " ...'s wrong?" and " ...is it?" phrases, I feel as if the translator is spoon-feeding me the context.

No one is spoon feeding you anything. The translator is just doing what they should.

I think the biggest misconception about the act of translation is that it's about translating words one for one and nothing more, when really, it's more about conveying ideas, concepts and emotions in a way that is easy for someone from another culture to understand. That's why some people have such a problem when a fansub group leaves words untranslated.

I imagine that a good translator works with the layperson in mind. A viewer that watches a lot of Japanese shows, studies the culture, etc, might already get the idea of Koyomi's "What?" dialogue. My mom? Who has never watched a single Japanese television show? Not so much. Nor does she have the inclination to seek out the "context" on her own. It's a translators job to provide that context by shaping the dialogue into an easy to understand form.

 

[Thunder025]

One must also remember that the Japanese language is known for shortening a lot of their sentences to a couple of words.

 

[The Slashing Best]

My responce to "NAND NOR"!

I think the biggest misconception about the act of translation is that it's about translating words one for one and nothing more, when really, it's more about conveying ideas, concepts and emotions in a way that is easy for someone from another culture to understand.

I feel as if the script should convey that, all you need to use is the formal equivalence method; the viewer should do the rest. I may be expecting a lot, but I feel as if people are smart enough to get it on there own merits and if they are unable to -- they should not watch the show. If a six year old is able to get; anyone over the age of six should. If I had to pinpoint one area where the formal equivalence method would fail; it would be idioms. But, a lot of them are easy to comprehend.

That's why some people have such a problem when a fansub group leaves words untranslated.

I am able to see that as an issue. I become irate when a group takes out or adds in words that were NOT there in the first place.

I imagine that a good translator works with the layperson in mind. A viewer that watches a lot of Japanese shows, studies the culture, etc, might already get the idea of Koyomi's "What?" dialogue. My mom? Who has never watched a single Japanese television show? Not so much. Nor does she have the inclination to seek out the "context" on her own. It's a translators job to provide that context by shaping the dialogue into an easy to understand form.

So, your mother -- or anyone for this context who is unfamiliar with a foreign program -- is unwilling to learn basic social norms of the culture that the program is from? I find that to be a tad dumb. Why would you not want to seek out the context?

 

[themidnighter]

First, let me say I've learned a lot about translation from reading the threads on Henshin Justice, comparing O-T and TVN. Thanks to all the participants, even (especially?) the nasty ones!

Now to the meat of my post...

While I'm a sucker for the aesthetics of Japan's pop culture (or at least, what makes it over to the West), let me express that I am not, by any metric, a weaboo. I regard Japanese culture, by-and-large, as closed-minded, racist, sexist, dehumanizing, repressive, and disturbingly obsessed with rape. That said, I find much of their fiction tends to glorify a lot of what their day-to-day culture stifles: individualism, baroque beauty, creative self-expression, alternative sexuality, female empowerment, poetry, open emotional expression, heroes who don't play by the rules, etc... (it's probably because Japanese society-at-large stifles these elements that they are found so prominently in their fiction).

I recognize this is a roundabout way of getting to the issue at hand, but I feel like it's relevant to my argument (at least in-so-far-as avoiding name-calling from KingRanger :anime, which focuses on aesthetics. It's also fitting for a genre that constantly marries heady themes to juvenile content.

Because I value the unique aesthetic of Japan's pop-culture (and find its contrast with every-day Japanese culture fascinating), I value translations that attempt to preserve a bit of the uniquely poetic phraseology of the Japanese language. When maintained in a way that doesn't interfere with understandability, it filters common, everyday concepts through a distinctly foreign perspective -- and the modicum of effort required to laterally interpret these concepts requires the viewer to engage with the narrative on a deeper level. This sort of cerebral engagement intensifies the viewer's relationship with the story and provides a fresh look at staid ideas.

Even though I trust that they'll best convey the meaning of any given line, I feel like O-T fails to preserve the aesthetic sense of the Japanese language. In an effort to make every line as understandable as possible, they sacrifice the poetry.

HERE IS ONE EXAMPLE: [HIDE]In Fourze episode 32, when Gentarou says, "Kanjitayo... Omae to minna no... Te de nukumori,"

Spoiler

after coming back from the dead with the help of his friends' spirits, who pull him back into the world of the living by grabbing his hand

O-T translates it as, "I could feel it... You and the others... Your warmth." While this does efficiently carry across the meaning of the line, it loses a tangible sense of poetry when you realize they fail to convey the intensity nukumori denotes -- it's synonymous with passion, fervor, and intense emotion, after all. "Te de nukumori," literally means, "'intense emotion' in my hand," and it carries an almost romantic connotation. "Your warmth," simply isn't poetic enough a way to carry across the sentiment.

I'd suggest something closer to, "I felt it... You and the others' passion... Your heat in my hand." (But better. I'm not a poet either.) This gets across the intensity of the expression and has a tangible sense of poetry, even if it's not entirely literal. The one they went with simply carries the message, and it's not entirely literal either.[/HIDE]

Mind you, TVN's subs don't carry across the poetry either. They don't carry much across because they're mostly nonsense. But since they translate more literally, the poetry sometimes translates accidentally.

Since there's no perfect option, I go with O-T. O-T puts more thought into their work on a character and readability level. And I prefer a lack of poetry to complete nonsense. But if there's one thing I'd like O-T to improve upon, it's their flare for evocative language.

 

[Artic_Rival]

Hey, at least they don't have someone going "don't molest the lawyer!"

Yeah, they had a eubonics spewing Phantom for a guy who doesn't act like that in the show, but at least they tried to do something with him.

 

[Fox-Chan]

Frankly, if I wanted to learn about the nuances of the Japanese language then I'd take a class.

 

[KingRanger]

I feel as if the script should convey that, all you need to use is the formal equivalence method; the viewer should do the rest. I may be expecting a lot, but I feel as if people are smart enough to get it on there own merits and if they are unable to -- they should not watch the show. If a six year old is able to get; anyone over the age of six should. If I had to pinpoint one area where the formal equivalence method would fail; it would be idioms. But, a lot of them are easy to comprehend.



I am able to see that as an issue. I become irate when a group takes out or adds in words that were NOT there in the first place.


So, your mother -- or anyone for this context who is unfamiliar with a foreign program -- is unwilling to learn basic social norms of the culture that the program is from? I find that to be a tad dumb. Why would you not want to seek out the context?

Please never learn Japanese and in turn please never EVER become a translator. You are not only putting down certain people, but you are going against the very concept of what it means to translate.