Kamen Rider - Will it ever stop?

[Sage Shinigami]

Okay, we all know that when Ishinomori was working on Kamen Rider, he took frequent breaks, which is why the show is five years older than Super Sentai but only has about half as many shows. Now that he's passed away, they're about two shows from doing just as many shows as he'd done when he was alive. (Ishinomori-era has nine shows, post has seven.)

I heard a while back that Kabuto was rumored to be the last KR series while Toei goes to work on a new Metal Hero show, but then I read recently that even that was a rumor, so my question is: Now that Ishinomori is dead, will Toei just milk the series as much as they do Sentai?

 

[Kyusaku]

Well, they've been milking it for almost 6 years now after Ishinomori's death, if it makes them money, and they want to keep making money, why would they stop? Remember, TOEI also made DBGT without Toriyama and tried milking that, but failed miserably.

 

[Sage Shinigami]

Yeah, but they've so far managed to do a good job on certain KRs. Kuuga, though made with Ishinomori's influence, was mostly done after his death, and that one's good. And Agito has been hailed here on HJU as one of the best KRs ever. In fact, very few people insult the New Gen KRs except Hibiki and Kabuto.

You do have a point about them wanting to make money though. I guess Metal Heroes just aren't as big moneymakers as KR shows are.

 

[toranoko]

My guess is that they'll keep with it as long as they are profiting. I doubt they'd want to risk pulling it to make a Metal Hero. At least I'm pretty sure /I/ wouldn't want to try that. If there is a Metal Hero, they could just run it along side with Kamen Rider. That way if it flops, at least they didn't drop the latter.

The recent series have been pretty iffy with fans it seems though. Kuuga and Agito were good and I don't hear much bad about them (if anything really, but that might be because not as many people have seen them??). But Ryuki and Hibiki? It seems a lot of people are divided with Kabuto too, and here and there I see complaints about Faiz (but maybe they are all from the same poster.)

 

[Kyusaku]

I dunno, most of the 2000+ can be argued as not really being rider shows period. Especially with TOEI turning the shows into a long dramas. They take an idea make the designs rider-esque, slap the name on it, and they rake in the money.

The franchise name has a lot of weight. Just look at some of the ratings numbers that were posted in the discussions about the Chouseishin series ratings. KR and Super Sentai get double those numbers, and are aired at an earlier times of the morning, except they're on a Sun, while the Chouseishin series were Saturdays.

IMHO the Chouseishin series are arguably more towards the vein of real tokusatsu than most of TOEI's latest creations.

 

[Barom 1]

I would have to agree that, especially the post Agito series, are just Toei slapping the name on series that are only vaguely rider-esque to draw in ratings. So many elements from Ishinomori's original concepts are gone from the series today and so many j-drama elements added that aside from the name the series have little in common.

 

[kyo28]

I agree with what you guys are saying but I think this whole 'dramatization' of Kamen Rider is due to smart marketing. I could be wrong but I seem to recall Toei found a second audience (besides children) to watch their KR shows: the moms of those children! And what they want is drama and young fashionable male actors in the lead. My guess is this is why Kamen Rider has become an amalgam between toku and drama instead of a pure toku (like the seishin series).

That said, I don't mean to say I dislike all of the recent KR series. In fact, I liked Hibiki in the beginning because of the original turn they took (too bad the story didn't go anywhere lateron) and Blade wasn't too bad either. Kabuto, I'm not sure yet...

So I think it depends on with which eye you look at it. If you watch a KR series without comparing it to older KR shows, and just watch it as a special effects/drama show, it's quite enjoyable. If you watch it hoping to recapture some of the feelings of the old KR shows, then no dice.

Anyway, I don't see them pulling the plug on this show, given the relatively high ratings and the toys are selling pretty well, including the SIC line.
IF (that's a capital if) we see a new metal series, it will probably be parallell with the rider series or some form of direct to video/DVD kind of thing, to test if there is an audience for a new Metal hero series.

 

[Shougo B'Stard]

If you watch a KR series without comparing it to older KR shows, and just watch it as a special effects/drama show, it's quite enjoyable.

Even without comparing it to anything, it still suffers, because the lot of them have been written horrendously. Really, Kuuga and Agito have been the only new Riders to have consistent storylines performed well, they're quality products. Ever since the second half of Ryuki, the Kamen Rider franchise has seemed like any Hollywood production to me -- that the suits in charge don't have the slightest idea what they're doing and it goes all over the place. Just as long as they cast pretty people who can't act and have a lot of toys to sell, just make it up as you go along because someone will buy into it to buy the merchandise.

But the thing people forget is that Ishinomori's son, Shou Onodera, is a supervisor for all of these shows. So, it's not just Toei milking the franchise for money, but Ishinomori's kid just slapping his approval on there for a check.

And Toei can blame themselves for murdering the metal heroes from the schizo and often repeated roads they had them travel. B-Fighter was bringing the franchise back to life, but having a sequel with all the same old stuff really did it in. Gavan, Winspector and B-Fighter did well, but I think by trying to squeeze two sequels from each of them caused people to tune out. I can really only see them trying out an "Uchuu Keiji the First" type deal to see how much interest is out there -- I can't see them shelving a money maker for a potential disaster.

 

[Black Ranger RX]

Kamen Rider's life just like any superhero you can name may depend on ratings (how many people in Japan are watching the TV Show on a regular basis) and on merchandising (how many people are buying the stuff).

As for the Metal Hero revival thing, personally I'd like to see the Metal Hero shows come back, coz I think they're cool!! But if it's for merchandizing then, it could work!! I heard older shows such as Uchuu Keiji Gavan are being remerchandised..

 

[Sage Shinigami]

But the thing people forget is that Ishinomori's son, Shou Onodera, is a supervisor for all of these shows. So, it's not just Toei milking the franchise for money, but Ishinomori's kid just slapping his approval on there for a check.

I didn't forget; I just never knew. :laugh: :laugh: Seriously though? The whole, "son takes father's franchise and fucks it all up to make money" is nothing new to folks. Novel author's sons do it all the time.

And Toei can blame themselves for murdering the metal heroes from the schizo and often repeated roads they had them travel. B-Fighter was bringing the franchise back to life, but having a sequel with all the same old stuff really did it in.

I hate to say it, but...you're right. I hear the third series wasn't even really Metal Hero? :disappoin

I dunno, most of the 2000+ can be argued as not really being rider shows period. Especially with TOEI turning the shows into a long dramas. They take an idea make the designs rider-esque, slap the name on it, and they rake in the money.

[noob=SageShinigami] What does everyone mean by long dramas? The show has always been long in terms of episode count, has it not? As far as drama goes...I've never really seen older Rider shows (nor have I seen J-Dramas, but that comes mainly from a lack of interest instead of a lack of money or a lack of ability), but what's the problem with dramatic moments and whatnot?[/noob]