Kamen Rider Ryuki - Talkback

[Black Fang]

Yeah, but to me the 49 episodes were important because they finally showed that Kanzaki learnt how fruitless the Rider War was. The movie and special implied that the reset is not new; Kanzaki has done that many times because each time his sister did not get revived, but he was unable to learn his lesson and to stop sacrificing the Riders to achieve his aims. The TV series finally made him learn that lesson, making him use Time Vent one final time to reset everything.

That's the reasoning I used to at first. But reading people's comments and then rewatching Ryuki again a few years after I first saw it (at which time I had a lot more shows under the belt), I got to thinking the time reset maybe wasn't that good an idea after all. Because again, if Kanzaki can just play around with time whenever he wants, that only nullifies everything the characters went through up to that point.

And like you said, even though Kanzaki reversed everyone's deaths in the end, he still ultimately toyed with their lives like a god. Sure they're not dead anymore, but all the knowledge and growth they achieved throughout the show is gone as well. Shinji is just an unremarkable bumbling reporter again, Ren is the would-be "tough guy" biker, Kitaoka is Japan's Sebastian Stark without the scruples, etc. So Kanzaki stole from them yet again.

I suspect the writer knew how controversial the ending would be, which is why she chose it. One thing about it is that it forces viewers to question Kanzaki's decision. Was that the best thing to do? After all, he does deny Kitaoka the chance to save himself from cancer and Ren the chance to save Eri. Also, while it is good to reset the War and remove the animosity existing between all 13 Riders, Kanzaki also removed something really important - Ren and Shinji's initially shaky but eventually strong friendship. I think the poignancy of that loss is best expressed in the final scene, where Ren and Shinji lock eyes, feel a sense of deja vu but fail to remember what they've been through together. And yet, we know that if the Rider War were not reset, Shinji would remain dead. Hence, was the Rider War reset the right thing in the end? I like that the writer leaves that up to us for interpretation.

Eh, perhaps. But controversial doesn't necessarily mean good. You could still question Kanzaki's decisions without the time reset, since he did after all affect thousands of people's lives just to save Yui. It would still be a bittersweet ending with Ren as the final survivor but forever scarred by his experience. I see the Ryuki and Kiva final arcs and think they could easily have been resolved in a Black-esque way. But both miss the mark. (However even Ryuki's ending still retains a bittersweet feeling, unlike Kiva's "we-all-friends-now-let's-fight-some-alien-vampires-in-spaceships... from the future!")

Ryuki never really had a genuine villian or final boss, where everything would be solved by beating the bastard and restoring the world to balance and everyone would live happily ever after.

I would consider Kanzaki and Odin to fill those roles respectively. No matter his intentions, Kanzaki is responsible for countless deaths. He has blood on his hands. And Odin was the last Rider to defeat before anyone could finally win.

 

[Lynxara]

But controversial doesn't necessarily mean good.

Controversial by definition never means good. It just means something about the work inspires broad disagreement or breaks taboo. Ryuki does both, but there's no intrinsic value to either.

The allegation that Ryuki has no true villain or final boss is completely absurd. The show's ending is everyone beating Odin/Kanzaki and "winning" in that they made the whole sorry business never happen.

Classic Ryuki: wanting to depict dramatic action without depicting any truly complicated consequences that might result from it. The show wants to be about people forced to murder each other, then ends with everyone feelin' fine.

 

[wyyc]

Controversial by definition never means good. It just means something about the work inspires broad disagreement or breaks taboo. Ryuki does both, but there's no intrinsic value to either.

The allegation that Ryuki has no true villain or final boss is completely absurd. The show's ending is everyone beating Odin/Kanzaki and "winning" in that they made the whole sorry business never happen.

Classic Ryuki: wanting to depict dramatic action without depicting any truly complicated consequences that might result from it. The show wants to be about people forced to murder each other, then ends with everyone feelin' fine.

Don't you feel your opinions are a bit too strong and skewed?

In the end fans have different perspectives. Expressing them moderately would aid a discussion, not making your word sound like the final word.

That's the reasoning I used to at first. But reading people's comments and then rewatching Ryuki again a few years after I first saw it (at which time I had a lot more shows under the belt), I got to thinking the time reset maybe wasn't that good an idea after all. Because again, if Kanzaki can just play around with time whenever he wants, that only nullifies everything the characters went through up to that point.

And like you said, even though Kanzaki reversed everyone's deaths in the end, he still ultimately toyed with their lives like a god. Sure they're not dead anymore, but all the knowledge and growth they achieved throughout the show is gone as well. Shinji is just an unremarkable bumbling reporter again, Ren is the would-be "tough guy" biker, Kitaoka is Japan's Sebastian Stark without the scruples, etc. So Kanzaki stole from them yet again.



Eh, perhaps. But controversial doesn't necessarily mean good. You could still question Kanzaki's decisions without the time reset, since he did after all affect thousands of people's lives just to save Yui. It would still be a bittersweet ending with Ren as the final survivor but forever scarred by his experience. I see the Ryuki and Kiva final arcs and think they could easily have been resolved in a Black-esque way. But both miss the mark. (However even Ryuki's ending still retains a bittersweet feeling, unlike Kiva's "we-all-friends-now-let's-fight-some-alien-vampires-in-spaceships... from the future!")



I would consider Kanzaki and Odin to fill those roles respectively. No matter his intentions, Kanzaki is responsible for countless deaths. He has blood on his hands. And Odin was the last Rider to defeat before anyone could finally win.

Ok. Yes, I understand where you're coming from now.

 

[Sage Shinigami]

Don't you feel your opinions are a bit too strong and skewed?

In the end fans have different perspectives. Expressing them moderately would aid a discussion, not making your word sound like the final word.



Ok. Yes, I understand where you're coming from now.

....Where's opinion. NOTHING in what she said was anything less than fact.

The show DOES want to be about people forced to murder each other...and then ends with everyone alive that would've lived if events had played out normally.

And to posit that Kanzaki Shiro wasn't the final boss...kinda means you didn't watch the show.

 

[Darkster]

Yeah, but to me the 49 episodes were important because they finally showed that Kanzaki learnt how fruitless the Rider War was. The movie and special implied that the reset is not new; Kanzaki has done that many times because each time his sister did not get revived, but he was unable to learn his lesson and to stop sacrificing the Riders to achieve his aims. The TV series finally made him learn that lesson, making him use Time Vent one final time to reset everything. Also, the Mirror World was a supernatural force imposed on the real world, in a way upsetting its balance, and for it to be removed to restore the real world back to its original form was quite satisfying for me.

I suspect the writer knew how controversial the ending would be, which is why she chose it. One thing about it is that it forces viewers to question Kanzaki's decision. Was that the best thing to do? After all, he does deny Kitaoka the chance to save himself from cancer and Ren the chance to save Eri. Also, while it is good to reset the War and remove the animosity existing between all 13 Riders, Kanzaki also removed something really important - Ren and Shinji's initially shaky but eventually strong friendship. I think the poignancy of that loss is best expressed in the final scene, where Ren and Shinji lock eyes, feel a sense of deja vu but fail to remember what they've been through together. And yet, we know that if the Rider War were not reset, Shinji would remain dead. Hence, was the Rider War reset the right thing in the end? I like that the writer leaves that up to us for interpretation.

I'm not attempting to justify Ryuki's ending, and I can see why some fans hate its execution. I initially went WTF when I watched it, but eventually grew to like it a lot more than most Rider show endings. It was more thought-provoking; Ryuki never really had a genuine villian or final boss, where everything would be solved by beating the bastard and restoring the world to balance and everyone would live happily ever after.

This.

Editor-in-chief is how I usually in remember him xD

Why don't you remember him by his name?

Don't you feel your opinions are a bit too strong and skewed?

In the end fans have different perspectives. Expressing them moderately would aid a discussion, not making your word sound like the final word.

This.

Ok. Yes, I understand where you're coming from now.

....Where's opinion. NOTHING in what she said was anything less than fact.

The show DOES want to be about people forced to murder each other...and then ends with everyone alive that would've lived if events had played out normally.

And to posit that Kanzaki Shiro wasn't the final boss...kinda means you didn't watch the show.

You need some more of this:

I also better understand your reasons now Black Fang. That would have made a decent ending as well.

 

[Nnnkingston]

Personally I liked Time Vent. It showed that the movie, and the TV special (both endings) had most likely already occurred, but that time was reset and these events had then been erased.

Once Kanzaki discovered that Yui didn't want to be saved at the expense of another person, he decided it's not worth giving her something that she wouldn't be able to live with. Therefore he does one more Time Vent to set everyone back to where they started from.

Sure this does avert everything in the TV series, but when Shinji and Ren walked past each other, it does show that they recognize each other but don't know from where. I took this as that maybe subconsciously all of the Riders learned something from the Rider Battle(s) and might strive/be able to live better lives than they had before.

In short; I believe the show is about learning from your mistakes, whether you realize it or not, and the hope that even if things look gloom you have the power to shape your own life.

 

[Darkster]

I also thought that there were subtle permanent changes to the Riders after the Time Vent. Shinji and Ren had the deja-vu moment for a few seconds there.

 

[Forever Knight]

Sure, the ending of Ryuki was meant to be bittersweet. Too bad the execution rendered it completely stupid.

The ending would need to be substantially rewritten to remove all the stupid bits, too.

How was it stupid?. Yui pretty much made Shiro restart everything, she didn't want to see anyone hurt or dead because of her and he had the power to do that.

Shiro did ALL of that up to this point to be with his sister again, why would he not grant her what she wanted?.

<Shiro> Yui, we are together forever!
<Yui> Thank Onee-san, I'm happy you got alot of people killed in the process. Let's live happily ever after from now on.

QFT. The people who hate Ryuki's ending don't get its significance and how bittersweet it is.

Agreed 100%.

You've learned nothing.

This shocks you?. It's HIS way or the highway, probally why he doesn't have many friends in life.

 

[Black Fang]

See, this is what you always do. You have nothing of merit to say, you haven't actually read what's going on, yet the moment you hear something against me you jump on it and try to cause trouble. Weren't you supposed to be Ignoring me?

 

[musashi03]

Personally, I'm used to "reset" endings from a lot of sci-fi flicks, it is just very logical to have an ending in which everything fantastic is taken away which in turn makes the world "normal" again. I've seen a lot of shows do this, super-powered guy loses his abilities and becomes normal in the end, super weapon is destroyed in the end, and so forth... Ryuki has pretty much reached the point where the media is already uncovering the Mirror World and a whole lot of people are affected by the stampeding Mirror Monsters, which pretty much brings the world to a state of the "over-fantastic", thus eventually leading up to an event which pretty much takes it all away and returns it to normal. Bottom line is, it isn't really an issue, it's the value of that moment in which we lose the fantastic but gain peace which really matters... Yet we get people complaining that "WTF?! ALL THAT **** FOR NOTHING?!", which is far from what that moment was really expressing, which is "ALL THAT **** REALLY DID HAPPEN, AND IT DOESN'T NEED PEOPLE TO KNOW ABOUT THEM TO HAVE A FUCKING VALUE".