Kamen Rider Ryuki - Talkback

Guys killing each other with a children's card game. Serious Business?

I do think Kamen Rider is something that ideally has a certain amount of dramatic tone and atmosphere to it as opposed to an aggressively light comedic one (though W juggled that rather well, being able to bring the laughs while still being a Kamen Rider show rather than a wackyfest) But Ryuki's got a lot of problems that it's "serious" tone doesn't really save it from. Not that serious is a guarantee of quality to begin with.
 
Guys killing each other with a children's card game. Serious Business?

I do think Kamen Rider is something that ideally has a certain amount of dramatic tone and atmosphere to it as opposed to an aggressively light comedic one (though W juggled that rather well, being able to bring the laughs while still being a Kamen Rider show rather than a wackyfest) But Ryuki's got a lot of problems that it's "serious" tone doesn't really save it from. Not that serious is a guarantee of quality to begin with.

I think Faiz dealt with the "serious business" concept even worse........we all know how that ended, even though I actually liked Faiz.

And matt, your first sentence in your post........I've got that strong urge to say that now popular meme, but I will control myself from saying it in this thread. *MUST......NOT.........SAY.......IT* I mean, it's not like Ryuki really used a motorcycle anyway. I mean, it wasn't like they were playing "Card Games On [NO...WILL NOT SAY IT.......CAN'T SAY IT ANYMORE]
 
I think the only reason it sounds cool is because of the way Asakura says it. If it was said by anybody else, people wouldn't really care. But Asakura's actor had a way of saying the japanese term for "vexed/vexing" in a way that made people like say "Wow......amazing @ how he can make that his reason for everything."

Well sure, but that just makes it sound like you're enjoying the character in spite of the awkward translation. You'd get the sense of the reason he's giving no matter what, as long as the translator was consistent about the word used.

I just think they could have chosen a word that is more appropriate to Ouja's personality. "Vexed" makes him sound like a brilliant scheming mastermind when in reality he's basically a greasy thug who likes to hit things. That's a totally different kind of creepy.
 
I think the word "vexed" suits Asakura simply because it's such an understatement. We know that beneath Asakura's cool exterior lies the equivalent of a human volcano. For him to say that he's vexed when he's obviously pissed enough to chop off your head a thousand times over makes him seem all the more threatening, especially when he uses a rather nonchalant tone to underscore his inner brutality, rather than for him to state that he's pissed outright. Otherwise, the character would just become like any other raving madman. The fact that you couldn't trust Asakura's words all the time, plus the way he switched from being almost normal to completely nuts, made watching him thoroughly enjoyable.
 
I think Faiz dealt with the "serious business" concept even worse........we all know how that ended, even though I actually liked Faiz.

And matt, your first sentence in your post........I've got that strong urge to say that now popular meme, but I will control myself from saying it in this thread. *MUST......NOT.........SAY.......IT* I mean, it's not like Ryuki really used a motorcycle anyway. I mean, it wasn't like they were playing "Card Games On [NO...WILL NOT SAY IT.......CAN'T SAY IT ANYMORE]

I won't say it either but I'll put this here
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVm2IKFJuVU&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVm2IKFJuVU&feature=related[/ame]
:buttrock:
 
Okay, I'm gonna say it. "Vexed" is a fucking stupid translation of Ouja's trademark line. No one talks like that. It's not a special word. He's annoyed. That's all he's saying.

I know alot of black guys here that say "yo guy I'm vexed" and then do that retarded Wakana "tch" attitude thing.

Yes, the grittiness of Scissors Jaguar and little boys in short shorts. KR was always about the gritty, yo.

:laugh:

Exacally. I'm sick to death of people just shitting on Heisei Kamen Rider and praising Shouwa. I personally love both eras without a shadow of a doubt but I do notice that alot of the fans here are 100x harder on Heisei and it isn't fair at all. I hope the Heisei haters take ur comment and choke on it.

Time to ressurect this thread, as I'm now in the middle of watching Ryuki (episode 20 to be exact).

Asakura Takeshi is actually starting to become one of my favorite characters, besides the fact that he is the most suicidal lunatic I've ever seen in my life.

I love Asakura's reasonings for everything he does ".......because I'm vexed."

Awesome!. Ryuki is a fantastic series. Now what you need to do first is ignore everything you've heard from the haters. Infact, HJU is slowly becoming a place where you gotta stay out of the fucking threads that the shows are being talked about because so many haters exist and ruin alot of the enjoyment for others just by nitpicking. I absolutely HATE nitpickers, they remind me of crying babies that want a bottle.

I could pick a random series out of a hat and they would rip it to death, even if they love it. Hell, I bet I could throw a series at them that they haven't seen yet and they'd still find something to complain about.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy the remaining episodes like I did.
 
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Exacally. I'm sick to death of people just shitting on Heisei Kamen Rider and praising Shouwa. I personally love both eras without a shadow of a doubt but I do notice that alot of the fans here are 100x harder on Heisei and it isn't fair at all. I hope the Heisei haters take ur comment and choke on it.
I always felt there was something different in Kuuga-Blade that changed in Kabuto to now. I don't know if "gritty" is the right word but...
 
I think the word "vexed" suits Asakura simply because it's such an understatement.

I think a translator with no grasp of colloquial English usage just picked a potential meaning of "iraira" out of his J -> E dictionary at random!

Vexed has connotations in English that are absolutely inappropriate to Asakura. I feel like his use of "iraira" would be best translated as "pissed off," since Asakura strikes me as the type to use a lot of slang and crude (yet TV-friendly) language. You could also use "annoyed" or "irritated" and they'd be reasonably appropriate.

Good English usage is all about the synonyms, not 1-to-1 correspondence. English is a language that typically has 6 to 10 different words you can use to express any idea, each with very particular connotations that suit different moods and levels of formality. When you translate any language into English, picking out synonyms to properly convey gradations of meaning is crucial.

Here, do something for me. Pause a Ryuki episode sometime and read Asakura's dialog out loud. Go on, do it. Try to say it the way you think Asakura would. Record yourself. Play it back. You'll probably notice that your recording sounds completely stupid.

That's a classic sign of bad dialog translation. A good dialog translation can be read out load and will sound... if not natural, like something a Westerner would write. Western TV shows have characters like Asakura and they sure as hell aren't ever saying that they're "vexed" because nobody talks that way.

For him to say that he's vexed when he's obviously pissed enough to chop off your head a thousand times over makes him seem all the more threatening, especially when he uses a rather nonchalant tone to underscore his inner brutality, rather than for him to state that he's pissed outright.

Two problems here. One, Asakura IS stating that he's pissed outright. That's what "iraira" means. If his dialog was meant to understate his anger he'd have an entirely different, much more circuitous speech pattern. Especially since Japanese is loaded with ways to say you're murderously angry without using terms as blunt as "iraira."

Two, when Asakura is ready to kill a guy and says he's "vexed," it makes him sound like he's bored and mildly disinterested in the action. "Vexed" is a prissy word, something you say if you're an upper-crust British lawyer who drinks a lot of Earl Grey tea. Asakura is a stone cold killer. Why is he using prissy language?

I often found the dissonance between Asakura's usually-overt tone and the goofy word choice in the translation hilarious, so I had problems taking Asakura seriously. Asakura is clearly intended as a sort of lowbrow Hannibal Lecter, the one guy who's playing the Rider Fight "correctly." He should be bluntly terrifying; no more, no less.
 
Now I'm just imagining Ouja adapted to this idea. "Well I say there ol' boy this Ryuki fellow has me sorely vexed indeed. I shall fancy a spot of tea after routing the naive, what!"
 

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