Kamen Rider Kuuga Fansub Project

Fine. It can be what ever. That doesn't change the fact that fansub groups should not superimpose anything to block out the Japanese.

Lynxara said:

I'm not so sure about that. I think what has happened is that a lot of the really poor VHS-quality fansubs never achieved wide circulation, due to the effort involved, and eventually were lost to time or replaced by official releases. So the VHS subs that people still look at, generally, are the best of the best.

I've been watching some 90s fansubs over the past month and, to be honest, I've seen some absolutely dreadful stuff. More dreadful than anything ever out of TVN. I suspect this sub only ended up preserved because the material never saw US release, because it is otherwise completely atrocious on every level except translation (where it is merely bad).

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Well first off I never said anything about the old days being better. If you think I implied that then I am sorry, but that wasn't the case. TVN goes out of their way to put in needless effects that do nothing to help understand the show. They also are on record as having the mind set that if you watch fansubs, you should be willing to learn some Japanese to understand the subs. That IMO is horse ****. Fansubs and any sub should be done so people with ZERO knoweledge of the language in question can understand these shows. This is all my opinions mind you. People can sub how they want, can not translate what they want, and add the most god awful icons in tsing if they want. Some of us just don't like it.

Drazic said:

Damn, those subs are ugly. No offense ;P Especially that title sub in the middle of the screen is horrible. It all just intrudes on the video way too much. Good subs should basically make you forget they're there (that's why tvn's current subs suck). Having them huge like this with ugly color and font doesnt help at all. Subs shouldn't be the main focus of your vid.

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That's called overkill.:redface2:
I have some experiences on typesetting and I basically use normal san-serif fonts on the dialogues and karaoke.

Sage Shinigami said:

Typesetting should take the least amount of time, period.

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Basically, it depends on the typesetters time. If it's just a Jdrama, it's easy since most of the subs are just dialogues and narration.
But since many are used to flashy effects in toku subs, typesetters tend to use most of the time creating different effects. And I know it's not that easy.

musashi03 said:

Me? I just want their Quality Checkers to be better

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I do agree. I have seen some misspellings and grammatical errors sometimes which is not good.

KingRanger said:

TVN goes out of their way to put in needless effects that do nothing to help understand the show.

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My point is mainly that I've actually seen VHS-era subs that attempted to work in something eerily similar to the modern subbing style that TVN uses. This sub even kept in a lot of untranslated Japanese in the "translation," honorifics and such.

The technology for it was just very crude, which resulted in something like a million times worse than TVN's usual outpit. This sub in particular featured primary-colored Times New Roman dialog fonts that displayed text in a slow scroll that would appear in essentially random parts of the screen.

I think had it been done for anything less obscure than the material I viewed, people simply would've stopped circulating it. This may mean something for TVN, but I couldn't tell you what.

We're in 2010, aesthetics shows people that whatever they are looking at is done with time and effort. TVN does their subs to the best quality and add a nice flare so that it looks good, i've never seen a sub from them where the effect made the word unreadable. When the day comes that their subs become unreadable I will complain along with everyone else.

People love to complain about everything. You get fansubs FREE and still complain. For people who dislike the styles of "flashy" fansubs and have such a strong stance against it, spend some money, buy your ass some Rosetta Stone and learn to speak Japanese. Then you will never have to watch another fansub again.

Come on, dude. Just because you get something for free doesn't mean you have no right to criticize it. We all get our toku for free and that sure as hell doesn't stop people from pissing on whatever shows they don't like. Something that's free and mediocre would still be better if it were free and great.

I can't think of a TVN sub that was literally unreadable off the top of my head, but their Baby's First Sub crayola font for the "mystical chant" during Goseiger ep 13 and 15 sure brought guffaws out of the whole room I was watching with, during scenes that clearly weren't meant for comedy. In addition, despite their supposedly rigorous week-long QC process, they obviously do very little editing for appropriate word choice. This results in technically-correct-but-eyebrow-raising lines like "limitless vexation." I think it's fair to criticize their process, especially since TVN's admittedly impressive organization makes it difficult for smaller startup groups to muster up the motivation to take on the bigger franchises.

I also take issue with the statement that speaking Japanese means you'll never have to watch a fansub again. What if you want to show sentai to your little brother (wait! silly me, that would mean sentai is for kids!) or watch Kamen Rider with your best friend? Interpretation is a clumsy art at best, even if you're fluent. Or do you think everyone always watches anime and toku alone in front of their computer?

For me, crticism can lead to progress... Nuff said~

Unless you are deliberately putting somebody down...

MMPR said:

We're in 2010, aesthetics shows people that whatever they are looking at is done with time and effort. TVN does their subs to the best quality and add a nice flare so that it looks good, i've never seen a sub from them where the effect made the word unreadable. When the day comes that their subs become unreadable I will complain along with everyone else.

People love to complain about everything. You get fansubs FREE and still complain. For people who dislike the styles of "flashy" fansubs and have such a strong stance against it, spend some money, buy your ass some Rosetta Stone and learn to speak Japanese. Then you will never have to watch another fansub again.

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The first paragraph is simply your opinion so cool. The 2nd well people can give their input. I used to think everyone should shut the hell up about fansubs if they didn't fansub. People have every right to talk about things released to the public. People that don't like fancy gaudy fansubs have options. But hey, T-N is a FANSUBBING groups that thinks YOU should learn Japanese to watch their subs. That's fucked up.

I also take issue with the statement that speaking Japanese means you'll never have to watch a fansub again. What if you want to show sentai to your little brother (wait! silly me, that would mean sentai is for kids!) or watch Kamen Rider with your best friend? Interpretation is a clumsy art at best, even if you're fluent. Or do you think everyone always watches anime and toku alone in front of their computer?

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We (again) get fansubs free, it is a privilege, not a right. If you and your family want to watch something in a foreign language and are against RAWs and can't find subs, let me break it down for you...you don't. No one is obliged to sub anything for you. I'm sure there are north american shows that you can find interesting, you can't let the world stop turning because you won't have Toku.

KingRanger said:

The first paragraph is simply your opinion so cool. The 2nd well people can give their input. I used to think everyone should shut the hell up about fansubs if they didn't fansub. People have every right to talk about things released to the public. People that don't like fancy gaudy fansubs have options. But hey, T-N is a FANSUBBING groups that thinks YOU should learn Japanese to watch their subs. That's fucked up.

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I agree we all have the right to voice our opinion. However, it shouldn't be done to insult their work. Insulting the fansubbing group is not doing anything to help anyones cause, there is a fine line between insulting and constructive criticism. That is probably what gets me the most mad.

The first paragraph is simply your opinion so cool. The 2nd well people can give their input. I used to think everyone should shut the hell up about fansubs if they didn't fansub. People have every right to talk about things released to the public. People that don't like fancy gaudy fansubs have options. But hey, T-N is a FANSUBBING groups that thinks YOU should learn Japanese to watch their subs. That's fucked up.

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To be honest I didn't read most of the comments in this thread, so I don't really understand what you mean when you say this. I watch TVN subs all the time and understand everything perfectly and don't speak a word of japanese.

MMPR said:

We (again) get fansubs free, it is a privilege, not a right. If you and your family want to watch something in a foreign language and are against RAWs and can't find subs, let me break it down for you...you don't. No one is obliged to sub anything for you. I'm sure there are north american shows that you can find interesting, you can't let the world stop turning because you won't have Toku.

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Let the world stop turning? Seriously? If putting things into ridiculously exaggerated terms is the only way you can argue against me I'm going to have to laugh at you.

I'm just pointing out that there are audiences for these things that many people, including the subbers, and including you (apparently) do not take into account. It would not kill anyone, or even greatly inconvenience them, to do a bit more genuine quality-checking or to translate all the Japanese. I think that failing to do so limits the audience for toku, which (presumably) is counter to the group's mission statement of making it more available to everyone.

This is not a feat akin to moving the world on its axis. It is a legitimate complaint made with the best of intentions, and you will not silence it just because it does not coincide with your personal worldview. In addition, I will point out that the group in question has every right to ignore criticism, a right which they have exercised somewhat consistently throughout their existence.