Kabuto's Second Half (everyone seems to hate it?)

[Ryuutaros]

I reckon the Hopper Rider designs (Tweaked of course, maybe even add a scarf) could've been used for the main title character/Rider in an 40th or 45th Anniversary.

 

[NeonZ]

Can someone explain to me the whole Hyper Kabuto arc? To make sense of it, Tendou would have to start traveling to the past in later episodes, but that never happens...

Tendo says in the episode where he gets Hyper Kabuto that the Hyper Kabuto they saw before was a sign that one day he'll master time travelling. So, he just seems to be Tendo from the distant future, post tv show. If he had mastered time travelling during the tv series itself, he'd be completely broken. Although, yeah, the way he seemingly uses time travel perfectly the first time he gets the Hyper Zecter in both tv and movie makes one think that he can already do that at will, but his later dialogue in the same episode confirms that he can't.

What's not established is how those Hopper Zecters came to be, but I guess either they just ran out of time or they just left it to our imagination. It's just too bad that the Hoppers didn't play a bigger role other than being a victim of the Native's final attack, since after seeing both former TheBee Zecter users have an awesome comeback just to be foiled by comedic writing is definitely a big waste of potential.

There's a scene where Mishima accuses Kagami's father of being behind them. Kagami's father doesn't answer, but the implication of that scene seems to be that Mishima was right. And that's actually directly confirmed by extra-series material.

 

[Black Fang]

Pretty much same as the Gatack Zecter, it's not like ZECT gave it to Kagami, the Zecters pretty much just choose whomever they want to give their power to depending on the personality of that person. So having the Hopper Zecters choose 2 people who're on the edge is somewhat logical. All they needed to do was explain that we have Zecters who choose emo people after establishing that Zecters base their options on the personality.

I was basically more concerned about that.........instead of "how the Zecters came to them."

The series basically established from the FIRST EPISODE that the Zecters choose their owner........considering the Kabuto Zecter basically "flicked off" Kagami and went straight to Tendou from the get-go.

So I basically assumed to that........but the origin of those Hopper Zecters would have made things feel a lot better (and the Dark Kabuto Zecter origin too.......but that's another whole situation in itself).

They never explained how Daisuke and Tsurugi got their Zecters either. They say the Zecters choose their partners..... but then we see ZECT keep trying to take them back or have these rouge Riders join ZECT. If there had been some incident where the Zecters had escaped and begun acting on their own, then things might make more sense. Essentially, if you weren't Kabuto or Gatack, you were useless beyond meeting Bandai's toy quota.

I won't beat around the bush: I maintain that Kabuto is the darkest and most suspenseful of the shows, with the possible exception of Kuuga, and it gives off a feeling that the only thing that can save the world from the Worm is the presence of ZECT and its Riders. I just don't get that doom-y feeling with any of the other shows (of course, sans Kuuga and probably Agito).

I really wouldn't consider a show that had a wacky Iron Chef two-parter plus a main character who would dress up as Cupid to be dark. Maybe if the show hadn't been schizophrenic, then perhaps. I would say Ryuki and Faiz are darker than Kabuto.

And, ZECT saving the world? ZECT was the enemy. They allied with the Natives in their petty war with the Worms, they control the world in God Speed Love, and in the finale they try to turn humanity into Worms/Natives/monsters. If you've played Area 51, they're more or less the equivalent of the BlackOps soldiers and Illuminati.

The whole show practically mimics that game:
Kagami Riku = Dr. Cray
Worms = Dark Grays
Natives = Light Grays
Area X = Area 51

 

[Galaxian]

Tendo says in the episode where he gets Hyper Kabuto that the Hyper Kabuto they saw before was a sign that one day he'll master time travelling. So, he just seems to be Tendo from the distant future, post tv show. If he had mastered time travelling during the tv series itself, he'd be completely broken. Although, yeah, the way he seemingly uses time travel perfectly the first time he gets the Hyper Zecter in both tv and movie makes on think that he can already do that at will, but his later dialogue in the same episode confirms that he can't.

Yeah, that would make sense.

Still there was an episode that really threw me into a loop. Right in the middle of the Hiyori arc, when ZECT decided to kill her, even though she's technically a Native, she's saved by Hyper Kabuto. Yet in the next scene, she's talking to Tendou in a place that it's never shown or mentioned again.

then we probably would have an explanation, like the Hopper Zecter came from a world where everybody hates on everything

Oh, I get it, the Hopper Zecters must have come from the internet!

 

[Ceighk]

Plus as an end note, Full Force is still one of the best used songs in franchise history. SO DAMN HEROIC :castlerock:

I think the main thing I didn't like about the second half was swapping out Full Force for Lord of the Speed. Lord of the Speed is good and all, but it can't match Full Force's awesome guitar solo:castlerock:

 

[musashi03]

Oh, I get it, the Hopper Zecters must have come from the internet!

Too bad NeonZ has already proven that Mishima was behind it. O well... :disappoin

Kabuto "popped my cherry", so to speak, being the first Rider show I ever watched, and pretty much the first non-Godzilla Tokusatsu I watched as a post-teenager.

I won't beat around the bush: I fucking adore Kabuto, despite its pretty generous flaws. I maintain that Kabuto is the darkest and most suspenseful of the shows, with the possible exception of Kuuga, and it gives off a feeling that the only thing that can save the world from the Worm is the presence of ZECT and its Riders. I just don't get that doom-y feeling with any of the other shows (of course, sans Kuuga and probably Agito).

The problem with Kabuto, to beat a dead horse, is its second half. Granted it's been a couple of years since I watched it, but I feel it asked way more questions than it could hope to answer. Daisuke/Drake dropped off the radar, as did TheBee (TheBee is probably my personal 'biggest letdown' of the show ), the Hopper "Twins" weren't nearly as relevant as we were led to believe they'd be, and the entirety of Dark Kabuto's existence still makes me scratch my head. Was that ever resolved? *Shrug*

I feel Kabuto requires a little more suspension of disbelief than most other shows in the franchise. It's a great show, possibly my favourite of the bunch, you just have to grit your teeth and bear through the rougher second half and hope most of the questions filling your head are answered by the end.

Plus as an end note, Full Force is still one of the best used songs in franchise history. SO DAMN HEROIC :castlerock:

Don't worry, I loved Kabuto too, coming from a Showa fan. I guess it's after loving a specific genre of Sci-Fi which involves time-travel that I get to enjoy a mess such as Kabuto. It's just one of those shows where I tend to forgive the flaws by thinking that it's incomprehensible at this point in time.

 

[Kiryurules]

They never explained how Daisuke and Tsurugi got their Zecters either. They say the Zecters choose their partners..... but then we see ZECT keep trying to take them back or have these rouge Riders join ZECT. If there had been some incident where the Zecters had escaped and begun acting on their own, then things might make more sense. Essentially, if you weren't Kabuto or Gatack, you were useless beyond meeting Bandai's toy quota.

I'd say the way we're shown the Gattack Zecter resisting ZECT's efforts to use it, by beating up the wearers they assign to it and eventually breaking out of the container they had it in (Did it do that? I can't remember now...), implies the other Zecters did the same in some way; escaping ZECT and seeking out Daisuke and Tsurugi.

Of course, we're never shown how or why, but it's a reasonable assumption that the Zecters were somehow attuned to them specifically (though this still makes no sense since ZECT made them in the first place, but then the Gattack Zecter's behavior wasn't exactly logical either).

And, ZECT saving the world? ZECT was the enemy. They allied with the Natives in their petty war with the Worms, they control the world in God Speed Love, and in the finale they try to turn humanity into Worms/Natives/monsters. If you've played Area 51, they're more or less the equivalent of the BlackOps soldiers and Illuminati.

Petty war? Hardly ZECT is evil, yes, but we don't actually find out about that until late-ish in the series (and yes, knowing KR's track record with corporations you'd probably guess they're evil from the start, but still) and even then, they're still fighting the Worm, who are arguably the much greater threat.

In a way the Native (and by extent ZECT) were a far more insidious enemy, but in terms of sheer danger the Worm's motivations and goals were far worse, i.e. destruction and replacement of humanity. The Native were simply changing humanity to Native, which a neutral observer would call "less bad."

And the Riders in Kabuto are still "ZECT Riders" in terms of label, I'd say.

 

[MetalSymphony]

I've heard that Yui Satonaka's sickness really threw a wrench in the works for the writing staff, as they had to not only write her out of the show for a good while, but also to dump or rewrite a good number of scripts because Hiyori's role was meant to grow larger over time.

Having to bring in a new female lead to fill the gap didn't work as well as they had hoped. I also think that maybe the Hoppers where to get a proper introduction (like showing where their Zectors came from) but they got pushed to the for front faster than originally intended.

:shrug:

 

[Black Fang]

I'd say the way we're shown the Gattack Zecter resisting ZECT's efforts to use it, by beating up the wearers they assign to it and eventually breaking out of the container they had it in (Did it do that? I can't remember now...), implies the other Zecters did the same in some way; escaping ZECT and seeking out Daisuke and Tsurugi.

Of course, we're never shown how or why, but it's a reasonable assumption that the Zecters were somehow attuned to them specifically (though this still makes no sense since ZECT made them in the first place, but then the Gattack Zecter's behavior wasn't exactly logical either).

I think it's safe to assume they escaped, but they never stated it. With Kabuto it seems they wanted to throw in a bunch of mysteries at once in a mad dash to be like Agito-Blade and then forgot or didn't bother to resolve most of them. A simple line about Zecters escaping (maybe as a result of the Shibuya meteor) wouldn't have been hard to do.

Speaking of Shibuya, why was that part of the city quartered off by ZECT but yet people were still living in the rubble? If Area X was built on that spot, why didn't they chase everyone out? And even forgetting that ZECT was there, who the hell lives in the ruins of a city for seven years after the incident, especially when they're surrounded by the unaffected portions of it?

Petty war? Hardly

Ok, maybe we don't know that, but we do know that the Natives and Worms were fighting each other (But never why) and brought that fight to Earth. The Natives then promised humans technology in exchange for helping them, thus ZECT was born. And ZECT hid everything Worm-related from the public, as Tendou remarked in the second episode.

ZECT is evil, yes, but we don't actually find out about that until late-ish in the series (and yes, knowing KR's track record with corporations you'd probably guess they're evil from the start, but still) and even then, they're still fighting the Worm, who are arguably the much greater threat.

I think it's pretty clear from the beginning that ZECT is, at the very least, dubious if not outright evil. Later on though there is no question.

In a way the Native (and by extent ZECT) were a far more insidious enemy, but in terms of sheer danger the Worm's motivations and goals were far worse, i.e. destruction and replacement of humanity. The Native were simply changing humanity to Native, which a neutral observer would call "less bad."

Why make humans Natives though? Natives eventually get adult forms, so is the adult form of a human-turned-Native predetermined? I can buy that the Natives would want to colonize Earth and rule it through ZECT, but that final reveal of turning humans into them was weird.

Kabuto is a show I want to like, since it has a lot of cool stuff. They even brought back the "Rider Kick" callout. But it botches everything up so much it becomes one of the worst shows.

 

[NeonZ]

Speaking of Shibuya, why was that part of the city quartered off by ZECT but yet people were still living in the rubble? If Area X was built on that spot, why didn't they chase everyone out?

Area X was built in the Shibuya ruins, but Area X didn't cover the entire ruins.

And even forgetting that ZECT was there, who the hell lives in the ruins of a city for seven years after the incident, especially when they're surrounded by the unaffected portions of it?

Homeless people and criminals?

Why make humans Natives though? Natives eventually get adult forms, so is the adult form of a human-turned-Native predetermined?

I don't think we ever saw that, actually. The Natives with the adult forms were never shown before in the generic ones. There was Mishima, an artificial Native, and Hiyori, who was born like that.

I can buy that the Natives would want to colonize Earth and rule it through ZECT, but that final reveal of turning humans into them was weird.

It's stated that Natives don't like fighting, that's why they made the Rider system for humans, rather than just using it themselves.

They believed that humanity wouldn't accept the natives, so there would be conflict even if the Natives could win in the end thanks to Zect. However, if everyone became a native, there'd be "true peace".