I think I'm having a weird mid-life break down...

Ignoring that bit of casual racism, I think non-fans are more inclined to like the designs because they have no preconceived expectations.

I think you're confusing "like" with "not hate." Glancing at it and going, "That's cool" is a whole different bag than looking at the thing every week for a year, or buying a toy of it, or buying all the toys of it. That's the test that Kamen Rider design work has to pass-- will you like it just as much or more after a year? Two years? Five years?

And for the show's purposes: will the design make for a cool suit, or one that begins rapidly falling apart as the weeks pass, because the kibble just can't withstand the pressures of shooting? Will there be stuff worked into the suit design that looked okay on 2D, but looks like hot garbage in front of the camera because the materials to realize the artist's concept just don't exist yet? Does it unreasonably restrict the suit actor's movements? Will it be so heavy or unbalanced it has to be quickly removed in favor of something easier to do stunts in?

I think the fruit thing is fatuous Bandai focus group nonsense, but the fruit isn't why there's some real stinkers in the designs. It's that since Bandai dictated the motif, the design work put toy gimmicks first and the actual suits second. And this leads to stuff like Pineapple Arms in all its awful glory, but especially its super-laughable dangling shoulder armor. I'd be willing to start a betting pool on how many more times they let the Pineapple Arms suit in front of the camera. It's just so, so bad, from the poorly-balanced helmet topper to the poor texturing of the pineapple armor pieces.

And not because it's a pineapple, who the **** cares, but because it's obvious no thought went into how to make the design's shapes work as a real suit with a real Seiji Takaiwa moving around in it. So even though Toei employs some of the best suit builders in the work, you give them this design and they can't do jack with it on their budget. Even though it's the second suit you see in the show.

And what are these suits going to look like after half a year, or a year? The bright colors will make it really hard to cover up wear and tear on the suits, and the number of spares will probably be limited given the huge glut of Riders. Gaim is probably pretty okay since he's the mascot, and not coincidentally, Orange Arms is probably the best single design we've seen so far from this line.

But remember the huge nasty glue seams that showed through so easily on Decade toward the end of his TV run? Are you ready for a repeat of that, times... every Rider in the show who's not Gaim? Maybe the show will be a huge hit and they'll have budget to replace things rapidly, or they'll figure out ways to cover it up. Or maybe not, and the show's finale will feature the Gaim equivalent of the ratty hot glue Mages.

But at the end of the day, it's the story that matters. Not liking a show because of the design motif is definitively superficial.

This is true of a novel, or a book where the pictures are mere decoration. But to say this of any visual medium? Nonsense. In a visual medium, the visuals should be telling just as much, if not more, of the story than the words the actors are saying. Any visual element that does not reinforce and progress the narrative, or that harms or hinders the narrative, is simply bad storytelling. And when I say a design is bad, that is what I mean: that I don't think it tells the story, that it actually does harm to the idea it's supposed to represent.

Now, I can't say that's the case with all of the Gaim designs yet, it's just too early and the design mix is too uneven. But I did notice that I felt utterly indifferent to episode 2's action scene because the Pineapple Arms suit is just not fun to look at. And while I love Kaito's character, I've got serious qualms about what the Baron suit's gonna end up looking like in front of the camera. Will I really be able to care about what Kaito does in battle if he does it wearing that suit? I honestly don't know. If I can't, and it really is just the suit, then that suit is a bad design that's hurting the story in my view. And I don't see how blaming the suit is inappropriate or wrong. Is it also wrong to blame anything on bad direction, bad stunt coordination, a bad call by the FX team? I just don't think so.

They probably did dictate it.

There's no "probably" to it. Gaim producer Naomi Takebe explicitly stated that this is the case in a Hyper Hobby interview. It is simply a matter of fact that Gaim wasn't planned to be about fruit. It was planned to be about samurai, maybe with bird or bug motifs to differentiate the designs. By the time Urobuchi was on board, fruit was locked in place, so he was able to build the narrative around it. And, as far as that goes, I think his work is commendable. A lot of lesser writers simply could not have pulled it off. But the fact remains that in Gaim, Urobuchi is straining to accommodate Bandai when it comes to the fruit stuff. He didn't come to Rider with some grand high concept that required fruit-themed powers for the characters.
 
I would probably find the motif stranger if not for Urobuchi at the helm, as I've eagerly followed the past few animes he's written for and found them all really good. Instead I have an almost stupidly blind faith that this series will be good. If Gaim ends up being bad then I expect that the motif being too ill-fitting won't rank high among reasons for its failings.
 
I think it only helps Urobuchi came in after the fruit motif. Imagine if his narrative based around Bird and Bug samurais got torn apart by Bandai mashing in fruits.
 
I think the Pineapple Arms form was going for a...cape mantle looking thing? The close ups right after the transformation show it being a solid piece, something that even the CGI version seems to reflect. It's just the...action version of the suit that breaks that illusion and gives us something really ugly to look at.
 
Last edited:
P1f9U5y.gif

I-is that his henshin device...?
 
I-is that his henshin device...?

Yes, it's the Orange Lockseed. You haven't watched the first episode yet?

In the Pineapple arms, he basically gets shoulder-mounted shields(think back to Ryuki's shoulder shields). Immediately after the transformation and after he beaten the Inves, the shoulder shields are just one big piece, which looks fine. But for some reason they made it segmented during the fights and it looks awful just flopping about as Takaiwa was moving really fast. I was totally fine with the design and that just ruined it.
 
Last edited:
You just said what's in my mind SaikoDragon. Although for story-wise, Gaim might be quite good.

For now, I'm quite happy that the 4 Riders fruit theme isn't as visible as I thought, but when I see Pineapple Arms in actions, I just think "Those designers at Toei must've burnt their mind with Bandai's demand". From what I can see on the 4 Riders main theme, fruits wasn't obviously shown in the motifs, heck I swear I thought Gaim is really a samurai with distorted colour scheme, Baron with a raging bull theme and Ryugen with a phoenix theme and all. But when it's time for Pine Arms, it was so painfully obvious there. It's like they've given up trying to do the same with Pine Arms.

This is unlike Wizard where the collectibles seems to mix in perfectly with the theme. The ring, though at first seems weird, still can be incorporated into the suit.

So in this case, I blame Bandai for coming up with these stupid brainstorming idea. For these 2 episode, Gaim seems to possess a good story, but the fruit thing seems to spoil it.
 
I do think Kamen Rider is supposed to be scary. He's meant to be yet another of Shocker's monsters, afterall. The thing is, they obviously have to tone down the design to differentiate the star of the show from the goons he beats up, and make him more appealing to viewers. Kamen Rider becoming a grasshopper was practically an accident, anyway -- Ishinomori asking his kid what his new hero should be. But it was a happy accident, because...it makes sense. I mean, this might sound dumb, but...look at a grasshopper. They're fucking ugly, man. There are people out there who hate insects of any type and think they're ugly or a nuisance and kill them on sight. It makes sense to base your monster, who is meant to terrorize Japan the world, off of an insect. (And Kamen Rider WAS Shocker's monster.)

Could little Jou Onodera have suggested a scarier insect to his dad? Sure. But at least they never made a Showa Rider, like, a gnat. It's a little screwed up that people are trashing the classic, iconic insect-themed designs in support of Gaim's stupidity. How many classic superheroes are based on an insect, anyway? Compare that to how many are based on a goddamn banana -- I don't think you could even find a parody that would do something that dumb.

And at least with an insect or animal of any type, there might be some folklore from somewhere around the world or symbolism you can put to use. If Takebe dug deep enough and found something and was like "You know, there's stories of this samurai, Kajitsumaru, who was said to enjoy an orange before battle," or "This samurai, Kajitsumaru, was said to live on only fruit," then MAYBE -- and it's a flimsy maybe -- it would be easier to forgive Gaim's dumb motif. I mean, I still don't understand what Den-O had to do with the Momotaro fable, but that was why he was a peach, so...hey, he had a reason. (And even then it was only his visor, not his entire armor or weapons that was peach related. Jesus, did you ever think the franchise would reach a point where it could be said that Den-O did something subtle!?!) There's no reasoning behind Gaim's stupidity, it's just all dumb and inexcusable. Some numbskull at Bandai goes "Hey, kids like fruit, let's make that the new show!" and they actually listen to him instead of firing his ass or, at the very least, laughing him out of the building and demoting him? Kids also like boogers and farts, so is that a possible motif for the next Rider?

And the fruit stuff ain't even the end of it -- why hasn't anybody talked about Gaim's flower bike? Defend THAT ****. Beware, villainy -- for here comes the dread orange-clad crusader on his trusty pink cherry blossom bike!

BTW, if Kamen Rider wasn't meant to be scary or monstrous, then the "true" Kamen Rider -- created by its creators, Ishinomori and son -- wouldn't have looked like this:

uaf5.png


The sad thing, though? Toei's eventually going to do something dumber than fruit. I didn't think Kamen Rider could do something stupider than instrument weapons or CD weapons or Pokemon card battles, but those look like nothing compared to some of the stuff the franchise has put out there in the last few years. (Usually all ideas found in Takebe's bad shows -- vending machine bikes, anyone?)
 
And the fruit stuff ain't even the end of it -- why hasn't anybody talked about Gaim's flower bike? Defend THAT ****. Beware, villainy -- for here comes the dread orange-clad crusader on his trusty pink cherry blossom bike!

I'm having such a good time on this thread. Y'know what? I'll bite.

Considering that the fruit/seed theme was already in play, using flowers for the bikes is actually really clever. Not to mention how both of the flowers used are more thematically appropriate for a samurai and a knight respectively than any bug or bird theme could ever be.

The reason why the sakura fits should be obvious to everyone here, and I'd say its a pretty safe bet that the rose (considering Baron's knight theme) is a reference to the Wars of the Roses. So not only do they make sense with the seed theme, they also make sense in regards to each riders secondary motif as well. They are completely justified being there. Also they look super badass.

Consider the bikes defended.

P.S. The RiderVendor was fucking genius
 

Latest News & Videos

Latest News

Back
Top