Has Zi-O Redeemed Kamen Rider?

[Japaneseseriesfan]

I see this went nowhere. Good to know you're a brickwall.

 

[Kamen Rider IXA]

I'd rather we stay on topic if we can. Thank you.

If by improve you mean devalue because made up riders don't belong here.

Not really.

Yes really.
You approve when Zi-O devalues Ex-Aid by removing its drama and call it "a better version". Ex-Aid's drama is part of what series is. Argue about how well Ex-Aid executes drama if you want, but removing it all together doesn't "improve" it. It's not coming from the place of love, respect and desire to celebrate series, it's not caring about it and wanting to a checklist at best or having smug mindset of "improving" source material at worst. I am all for creators bringing their own visions to the table, but that's not what anniversary celebrations are for. The only reason to bring back Ex-Aid imagery and characters back is because there are people who care about Ex-Aid. And those very same people did wonder what was the point of, say, bringing Hiro back and doing nothing with him. Zi-O should have decided early on whether it celebrates previous series or doing its own thing, because one thing would most probably get in the way of another.
If I were a fan of a previous show and wanted to see characters I like again, I would go away from their tributes disappointed, because show doesn't really focus on them (Wizard "tribute" is probably the best example of that, although OOO one focuses on Genm of all people. I like Genm more than entirity of OOO, but it's just not fair to OOO fans).
And If I were a fan of Zi-O and didn't give a **** about previous series, I would be annoyed that show constantly brings up some stuff I have zero context/simply don't care about, which ends up irrelevant to the series as a whole (Sougo might as well have gotten watches from the spirits of Riders or something).
I actually agree with you about Decade being a better version of Zi-O, because you can at least sort of judge it as its own thing. But there is a reason Decade as a series has such a poor reputation with Toei in all its crossover-loving glory pretending AR Riders don't exist, and bringing back only parts of the show that people liked (namely Decade himself along with sometimes Diend and Narutaki. Guess you can count Abyss 30 sec cameo in Rider Time Special, if that means anything to you). I know this first-hand, becuase I'm one of like three people who likes or ever remembers that Onodera and Dark Kiva Otoya exist and want someone to bring back and do something interesting with them.
That's because people despised the idea of using just suits and vague concepts of what series might be (and often failing even at that), instead of what series actually were. Because characters and stories of those shows are what people attached to. Zi-O had taken critisism of how it handled its tributes for the very same reason and it changed the approach to them at least to some degree. Dunno if show got better or not, since I haven't got that far and don't really want to.
The point is, if you bother doing an anniversary, you should put actual effort into anniversary aspect and do it for people who would care about past series first and foremost. It's not impossible to do that in the way that won't confuse newcomers. Hell, they may even would want to check series out, if that leaves an impact on them (like Liveman's Gokaiger tribute made me interested in checking out series)

 

[Dr Kain]

Removing the drama to a series also means that that series has no reason to exist because it isn't doing anything different from the series before it and the series after it. The drama is what makes each series it's own series.

Like why would I want to watch W, Gaim, or Blade if they were the same thing as Black?

 

[Captain Shark]

Good to know you're a brickwall.

Better a brickwall than a morally bankrupt goalpost shifter like you.

You approve when Zi-O devalues Ex-Aid by removing its drama and call it "a better version".

You imply Ex-Aid had much to devalue to begin with.

Ex-Aid's drama is part of what series is.

You spelled Kamen Rider Chronus incorrectly.

It's not coming from the place of love, respect and desire to celebrate series, it's not caring about it and wanting to a checklist at best or having smug mindset of "improving" source material at worst.

Except it is: You have gamers and doctors. You got the motifs, you have enough.

The only reason to bring back Ex-Aid imagery and characters back is because there are people who care about Ex-Aid.

Or to remind people these riders existed and are still relevant.

Wizard "tribute" is probably the best example of that, although OOO one focuses on Genm of all people. I like Genm more than entirity of OOO, but it's just not fair to OOO fans

As a fan of Wizard and OOO they had magic and despair and greed and medals, you don't really need much more.

And If I were a fan of Zi-O and didn't give a **** about previous series, I would be annoyed that show constantly brings up some stuff I have zero context/simply don't care about

As someone warming up to Zi-O the context is there: Previous riders existed and their legacies and powers are at stake. Stop being so demanding, your mouth possesses you in the pale moonlight.

That's because people despised the idea of using just suits and vague concepts of what series might be (and often failing even at that), instead of what series actually were.

You claim to speak for other people but you do not.

Dunno if show got better or not, since I haven't got that far and don't really want to.

They fixed Blade's pathetic joke of an ending by giving it an actual ending and gave Ryuga a proper introduction to the main timeline, so in a way it is redeeming Kamen Rider in ways I wasn't expecting. Granted, Build was so caustic I don't expect one series to completely scrub out the stench.

The point is, if you bother doing an anniversary, you should put actual effort into anniversary aspect and do it for people who would care about past series first and foremost.

Be sure to tell that to Dr. Kain when he fanboys all over Turn A for no reason.

The drama is what makes each series it's own series.

That's not correct.

Like why would I want to watch W, Gaim, or Blade if they were the same thing as Black?

Statements like these make me question if you have any unique opinions and you don't just copy and paste what other fans have said. Like Bill on King of The Hill you seem to bring out a very average-ness when critiquing other people's taste.

 

[scikaiju]

Okay this tjread officially closed. Should have done it a while ago, but I was hoping some mature discussion was going to take place after a bit. Now you guys are getting into insult terrirory.

Just a warning if this thread gets restarted it will be locked as soon as I see it.