Daimajin Trilogy Coming to US Blu-ray

[kpa69]

A dub now?

We explained this on SciFi Japan a while back. AIP-TV licensed the first two Daimajin films and released dubbed versions in the US back in the late 1960s. AIP didn't pick up the third movie and no English dub was ever done. Mill Creek has now dubbed that one so that all three movies will have Japanese and English audio tracks.

I doubt that it is high quality for the transfer. Knowing Mill Creek, this probably will be DVD quality on Blu-Ray discs. They'll catch people on "high quality" and "Blu-Ray" because most people think that the two are interchangeable.

This was also covered on SFJ. Mill Creek is using HD transfers created by Kadokawa Pictures (owners of Daimajin) from the original film elements.

The subtitles probably will not be synchronized as well. I hope that the ADV script isn't reused because it omits parts.

Also covered on SFJ... shingamyeonblack, you really should read the articles! :laugh: We work hard to offer as much accurate, confirmed info as possible so you don't have to guess or make assumptions about the details.

New translations. New subtitles. Different company than the one the screwed up the GAMERA 3 subs.

SciFi Japan usually gets advance copies, right? Please let me know about the quality when you get one. Thanks.

If we get advance copies I will definitely let you know.

 

[shingamyeonblack]

So Kadokawa basically is backing the entire video portion and Mill Creek simply is distributing this time? Mill Creek is terrible with authoring. You've seen their Iron King release, right? It's compressed into less discs so the quality is cheaper and the subtitles don't match it anymore. Pretty much the one way that I would fell like Mill Creek would not be able to screw up the video is if Kadowkawa had more involvement in the authoring than just providing the original video.

The new dub would be awkward, right? The movies have two older dubs and a newer one would sound too different because ADR now is done with technology that renders more crisp audio tracks.

 

[kpa69]

So Kadokawa basically is backing the entire video portion and Mill Creek simply is distributing this time? Mill Creek is terrible with authoring. You've seen their Iron King release, right? It's compressed into less discs so the quality is cheaper and the subtitles don't match it anymore. Pretty much the one way that I would fell like Mill Creek would not be able to screw up the video is if Kadowkawa had more involvement in the authoring than just providing the original video.

I think you're confusing completely different situations. Mill Creek started out as a budget label who mainly released titles with a low SRP... the idea being to keep the keep the price down and make for an easy impulse buy. Titles like ULTRAMAN and IRON KING were acquired from BCI when that company folded. Mill Creek reused the BCI transfers and followed their old business plan... cram a lot of episodes on each discs and keep the retail price down. If you compare the two releases it's obvious... BCI's IRON KING retailed for $39.98 while Mill Creek's was $14.98 (or almost 2/3 less).

But Mill Creek has evolved as a company and started doing things differently. For their Gamera and Daimajin Blu-ray releases they licensed the films from Kadokawa Pictures and were provided transfers and materials directly from the Japanese studio. Their Gamera Blu-rays have received a cumulative 4.5 out of 5 stars from Amazon.com, while Blu-ray.com's review states...

"Mill Creek's snazzy 1080p transfer of Gamera: Revenge of Iris is sure to please fans. This is a sharp image that's well detailed and that yields lush colors throughout."

Check out forums like this one and you'll find that fans were VERY happy with the image quality of the Gamera discs. Daimajin is being handled the same way so it should be of similar quality. This isn't IRON KING.

The new dub would be awkward, right? The movies have two older dubs and a newer one would sound too different because ADR now is done with technology that renders more crisp audio tracks.

I disagree about it being awkward. I'm a lifelong fan of Japanese FX movies and shows, and I know that the English dubs vary widely in quality. DAIMAJIN STRIKES AGAIN was never dubbed in English so I applaud Mill Creek for taking the time and money to dub the film now, 46 years after it was first released. I actually suggested this idea to them when I first heard they had acquired the Daimajin movies, and was surprised months later when they told me they had it done!

I don't know how well the dub matches what was done for the first two movies, but even it doesn't it won't be any different than the wide variety in all of the dubbed Godzilla/Toho movies, Gamera films, Ultraman series, and so on. If anything, differences in dubbing would be more in keeping with the history of this genre.

 

[shingamyeonblack]

I think you're confusing completely different situations. Mill Creek started out as a budget label who mainly released titles with a low SRP... the idea being to keep the keep the price down and make for an easy impulse buy. Titles like ULTRAMAN and IRON KING were acquired from BCI when that company folded. Mill Creek reused the BCI transfers and followed their old business plan... cram a lot of episodes on each discs and keep the retail price down. If you compare the two releases it's obvious... BCI's IRON KING retailed for $39.98 while Mill Creek's was $14.98 (or almost 2/3 less).

But Mill Creek has evolved as a company and started doing things differently. For their Gamera and Daimajin Blu-ray releases they licensed the films from Kadokawa Pictures and were provided transfers and materials directly from the Japanese studio. Their Gamera Blu-rays have received a cumulative 4.5 out of 5 stars from Amazon.com, while Blu-ray.com's review states...

"Mill Creek's snazzy 1080p transfer of Gamera: Revenge of Iris is sure to please fans. This is a sharp image that's well detailed and that yields lush colors throughout."

Check out forums like this one and you'll find that fans were VERY happy with the image quality of the Gamera discs. Daimajin is being handled the same way so it should be of similar quality. This isn't IRON KING.



I disagree about it being awkward. I'm a lifelong fan of Japanese FX movies and shows, and I know that the English dubs vary widely in quality. DAIMAJIN STRIKES AGAIN was never dubbed in English so I applaud Mill Creek for taking the time and money to dub the film now, 46 years after it was first released. I actually suggested this idea to them when I first heard they had acquired the Daimajin movies, and was surprised months later when they told me they had it done!

I don't know how well the dub matches what was done for the first two movies, but even it doesn't it won't be any different than the wide variety in all of the dubbed Godzilla/Toho movies, Gamera films, Ultraman series, and so on. If anything, differences in dubbing would be more in keeping with the history of this genre.

It's not quite using the same transfers when the second ones are of lesser quality. Maybe you didn't know, but Iron King was in less discs in the Mill Creek version. The BCI video is compressed and the BCI subtitles are tacked on there without any adjustment.

From the very same Amazon.com:

Now the bad, and it is very bad indeed: the subtitles are atrocious, and that's putting it mildly. We are talking cheap, Hong Kong bootleg DVD bad. I kid you not--literally every other line is either mis-subtitled or not even subtitled at all. Roughly 35% of the dialogue is missing. Mill Creek had a *whole year* and they pull this crap? Unbelievable. Even the extras are badly subtitled--there is a seven second delay on all of them.

Due to the subtitle fiasco, I wouldn't recommend this release to people who haven't seen the film before, as they won't even be able to follow the plot as so much dialogue is missing. Pick up the double feature on its own, and for GAMERA 3 stick with the original ADV DVD--the picture on it wasn't great, but it was at least watchable AND had excellent English subtitles.

It's not just the video problem. See, the Iron King video quality is not atrocious. The subtitles were not re-fitted to the newly compressed video. It's like Mill Creek said something like "the video looks the same, so just put the subtitles on there and let's call it a day."

That's strange. You're saying that a dub that sounds nothing like previous dubs is better than a consistent dubbing within a series? It's like that anecdote in 8 Simple Rules in which the mother says that she cuts the ends of the meatloaf because that's the way her mother did it and she asked her own mother and her mother said that her mother did it, so she asks the grandmother why she did it and the grandmother replies that the pan was too small. If you had a bigger pan, then would you cut the ends off the meatloaf before putting it in the pan? I'm not saying that you have a choice of consistent dubbing here, but would you rather pick inconsistent dubbing just because it's just the way things happened to be?

 

[kpa69]

It's not quite using the same transfers when the second ones are of lesser quality. Maybe you didn't know, but Iron King was in less discs in the Mill Creek version. The BCI video is compressed and the BCI subtitles are tacked on there without any adjustment.

I already explained this. Check my last post and you'll find...

Mill Creek reused the BCI transfers and followed their old business plan... cram a lot of episodes on each discs and keep the retail price down. If you compare the two releases it's obvious... BCI's IRON KING retailed for $39.98 while Mill Creek's was $14.98 (or almost 2/3 less).

Like I said before, Mill Creek's plan with BCI reissues like ULTRAMAN and IRON KING was to produce low cost releases that would make for easy impulse buys with customers. They reused the BCI transfers, dumped extras like the booklets that came with BCI releases, crammed more episodes on each disc, and released sets the retailed for much less (in IRON KING's case, almost 2/3 less) than the BCI sets. High quality was not their goal... keeping the retail price down was.

And like I also said before, you're confusing completely different situations by comparing how they handled IRON KING with what they're doing for Daimajin. Mill Creek got IRON KING because they picked up the assets of a company that went out of business and saw an opportunity to do some cheap re-releases. If they were treating Daimajin the same way, Mill Creek would just reuse the ADV transfers of the films, slap all three movies on one disc, and sell it for $10.

But that's not what they've done. For both Gamera and Daimajin, Mill Creek got the rights from Kadokawa, the Japanese studio that owns these films. Kadokawa provided new HD transfers from the original film elements. Mill Creek paid additional money to Kadokawa to get bonus material to include in the US releases. Mill Creek paid for new translations and subtitles. And they paid for a new English dub for the last Daimajin film. When the company hired to do the subs for GAMERA 3 screwed up (twice!), Mill Creek offered free replacement copies of the disc... that cost them money to manufacture and ship the replacements. They also gave that company the boot and hired a new translation company for Daimajin.

Again, like I said in my last post: This isn't IRON KING. The two properties weren't acquired in the same way and weren't handled in the same way. If you want an accurate comparison, look at Mill Creek's Gamera discs and what fans/customers thought of them.

That's strange. You're saying that a dub that sounds nothing like previous dubs is better than a consistent dubbing within a series?

You completely misunderstood my point.

You wrote before that "The new dub would be awkward, right? The movies have two older dubs and a newer one would sound too different". And my point was that older dubs sound differently from each other, too. The first 6 Godzilla films were dubbed by 6 different studios/groups, and they don't sound the same. At least 6 different dubbing studios have worked on the Gamera movies. The dubbing of ULTRAMAN doesn't sound like the dubbing of ULTRA-7 which doesn't sound like the dubbing for ULTRAMAN TIGA.

Of course consistent (and quality) English dubbing would be preferred. But in the 60 years that these films and shows have been released in the US there hasn't been consistency. A new dub for DAIMAJIN STRIKES AGAIN won't be awkward; it will be more of what there's always been.

It's like that anecdote in 8 Simple Rules in which the mother says that she cuts the ends of the meatloaf because that's the way her mother did it and she asked her own mother and her mother said that her mother did it, so she asks the grandmother why she did it and the grandmother replies that the pan was too small. If you had a bigger pan, then would you cut the ends off the meatloaf before putting it in the pan?

Amusing story, but your analogy doesn't fit here for one simple rule... there is no "bigger pan" that could have been used.

I'm not saying that you have a choice of consistent dubbing here, but would you rather pick inconsistent dubbing just because it's just the way things happened to be?

Of course not. But you have to deal with the reality of how things actually are, not the fantasy of how thing would be if it was a perfect world. I honestly believe going on about how things "should be" is a waste of time... it's much more effective to look at how things really are and from there either make the most of the situation or figure out how to change it.

An English dub of STRIKES AGAIN was never done, so -- unless you have a time machine and can go back in time to make the same people dub it --there will never, ever be the "bigger pan" you're looking for. So in the real world, Mill Creek's options were to leave the film undubbed or have it done themselves. That's it. They chose to dub the film so that all three movies would have an English language option.

I haven't heard the new dub and don't know how good or bad it is. But you weren't commenting on the quality of the dub, rather that it will be awkward because it may not be consistent with the other dubs. And my reply dealt with the reality of that situation... consistency has never been much of a factor for the English dubs. Is that perfect? No. Is that reality? Yes.

So good or bad, STRIKES AGAIN won't be any more awkward that the decades of wildly varying dubs that came before it. If there's been any consistency over the years, it's that the dubs have always been inconsistent.

 

[shingamyeonblack]

I already explained this. Check my last post and you'll find...

Mill Creek reused the BCI transfers and followed their old business plan... cram a lot of episodes on each discs and keep the retail price down. If you compare the two releases it's obvious... BCI's IRON KING retailed for $39.98 while Mill Creek's was $14.98 (or almost 2/3 less).

Like I said before, Mill Creek's plan with BCI reissues like ULTRAMAN and IRON KING was to produce low cost releases that would make for easy impulse buys with customers. They reused the BCI transfers, dumped extras like the booklets that came with BCI releases, crammed more episodes on each disc, and released sets the retailed for much less (in IRON KING's case, almost 2/3 less) than the BCI sets. High quality was not their goal... keeping the retail price down was.

And like I also said before, you're confusing completely different situations by comparing how they handled IRON KING with what they're doing for Daimajin. Mill Creek got IRON KING because they picked up the assets of a company that went out of business and saw an opportunity to do some cheap re-releases. If they were treating Daimajin the same way, Mill Creek would just reuse the ADV transfers of the films, slap all three movies on one disc, and sell it for $10.

But that's not what they've done. For both Gamera and Daimajin, Mill Creek got the rights from Kadokawa, the Japanese studio that owns these films. Kadokawa provided new HD transfers from the original film elements. Mill Creek paid additional money to Kadokawa to get bonus material to include in the US releases. Mill Creek paid for new translations and subtitles. And they paid for a new English dub for the last Daimajin film. When the company hired to do the subs for GAMERA 3 screwed up (twice!), Mill Creek offered free replacement copies of the disc... that cost them money to manufacture and ship the replacements. They also gave that company the boot and hired a new translation company for Daimajin.

Again, like I said in my last post: This isn't IRON KING. The two properties weren't acquired in the same way and weren't handled in the same way. If you want an accurate comparison, look at Mill Creek's Gamera discs and what fans/customers thought of them.



You completely misunderstood my point.

You wrote before that "The new dub would be awkward, right? The movies have two older dubs and a newer one would sound too different". And my point was that older dubs sound differently from each other, too. The first 6 Godzilla films were dubbed by 6 different studios/groups, and they don't sound the same. At least 6 different dubbing studios have worked on the Gamera movies. The dubbing of ULTRAMAN doesn't sound like the dubbing of ULTRA-7 which doesn't sound like the dubbing for ULTRAMAN TIGA.

Of course consistent (and quality) English dubbing would be preferred. But in the 60 years that these films and shows have been released in the US there hasn't been consistency. A new dub for DAIMAJIN STRIKES AGAIN won't be awkward; it will be more of what there's always been.



Amusing story, but your analogy doesn't fit here for one simple rule... there is no "bigger pan" that could have been used.



Of course not. But you have to deal with the reality of how things actually are, not the fantasy of how thing would be if it was a perfect world. I honestly believe going on about how things "should be" is a waste of time... it's much more effective to look at how things really are and from there either make the most of the situation or figure out how to change it.

An English dub of STRIKES AGAIN was never done, so -- unless you have a time machine and can go back in time to make the same people dub it --there will never, ever be the "bigger pan" you're looking for. So in the real world, Mill Creek's options were to leave the film undubbed or have it done themselves. That's it. They chose to dub the film so that all three movies would have an English language option.

I haven't heard the new dub and don't know how good or bad it is. But you weren't commenting on the quality of the dub, rather that it will be awkward because it may not be consistent with the other dubs. And my reply dealt with the reality of that situation... consistency has never been much of a factor for the English dubs. Is that perfect? No. Is that reality? Yes.

So good or bad, STRIKES AGAIN won't be any more awkward that the decades of wildly varying dubs that came before it. If there's been any consistency over the years, it's that the dubs have always been inconsistent.

The problem with Gamera cannot be blamed on the subtitle company alone. As a distributor, Mill Creek must hold itself to some kind of standard. That being said, high quality for a low budget is not the usual standard for most people, but a re-timing of the subtitles would not take as much effort as hiring translators, initial timers, editors, and even an ADR company. Just identify the problem and fix it.

The dub comment was more like just mentioning an observation. You went all KingRanger on it. Series that span over a few decades wouldn't sound like each other. It's obvious. I already said it.

The anecdote is fine. I even explained each part to you and I covered potential fallacies. The core idea is that if you knew about something and you had the choice between something that suits you better (like less waste) and something that does not quite happen to work then you would make a choice.

It's not always about having a bigger pan. Why not have meatloaf at all?

My comment also dealt with the reality of the situation. Will listening to an audio track that is decades old and a new crisp and clear audio track in the same language within the same series be awkward? Yes. Will it vary in awkwardness with different people? Yes. Should we stop with rhetorical questions that go on a tangent? Yes.

The new dub probably will be better because earlier dubs in English were too exaggerated in tone and the scripts were written in a way that fit the most syllables to the video.

 

[kpa69]

The problem with Gamera cannot be blamed on the subtitle company alone.

No one said it was.

As a distributor, Mill Creek must hold itself to some kind of standard.

Seriously, what the heck are you talking about? When Mill Creek realized there was a problem with the G3 subtitles they didn't just tell their fans "too bad!", instead they offered free replacement copies. They also gave the company that did the subs an opportunity to fix them, and it took them two more tries to get it right... and because of that, Mill Creek replaced on Daimajin so there wouldn't be a repeat. Fixing the problem, taking steps to make sure it doesn't happen again the next time... that's a good way for a business to handle things.

To give some background, I've worked on the BFI DVDs of the original GODZILLA and THE MYSTERIANS, 8 different Toho DVDs from Classic Media, written text materials for Discotek's WAR in SPACE and SAYONARA JUPITER DVDs as well as Mill Creek's GAMERA 3 and Daimajin Blu-rays, and given smaller assists to some of Media Blasters' Toho discs, Criterion's GODZILLA discs, and Echo Bridge's upcoming GODZILLA VS BIOLLANTE discs. From firsthand experience I know the issues that these companies have had to deal with (usually budget, time, and a lack of usable elements), and I know which companies go the extra mile and which ones don't. Mill Creek ranks as one of the better companies on my list... on the Gamera and Daimajin discs they went out their way to make customers happy, listened to feedback, and followed up on recommendations without having to be pushed over and over. I wished more companies behaved that professionally.

The dub comment was more like just mentioning an observation. You went all KingRanger on it.

I have no idea who KingRanger is so that comment means nothing to me.

My nature is to approach topics or discussions like this is to treat them like a scientific experiment or courtroom argument. Opinions, assumptions and guesses carry no weight... facts and evidence reveal the truth. More often than not, explaining the facts takes longer than making a statement based on nothing.

Your first post was a bunch of assumptions and criticisms... all of which had already been disproved. Then you kept trying to compare IRON KING to Daimajin, even though the facts are that the two properties were acquired and handled in completely different ways for completely different purposes. You ignored that reviewers and customers were very happy with Mill Creek's Gamera discs -- which were licensed in the same way and from the same company as Majin -- and stuck to your inaccurate IRON KING comparison.

Do you honestly think IRON KING (a bare-bones low budget release using DVD transfers acquired from a defunct label) better matches Daimajin (a Collector's Edition release using HD transfers by the Japanese studio and sourced from the original film elements) than Gamera (a Collector's Edition release using HD transfers by the exact same Japanese studio and sourced from the original film elements)? Do you think that all the customers who were happy with the Gamera discs-- and you can confirm that on Amazon, Bluray.com, etc-- were wrong?

Just to be clear this is just a debate for me, not something personal. Scoring imaginary points on some person I've never met means nothing. I'm here to discuss the facts and I've kept an open mind when reading your posts. But pretty much nothing you've said here holds up factually. All I'm a seeing is a lot of assumptions from you that don't match reality.

Series that span over a few decades wouldn't sound like each other. It's obvious. I already said it.

That was some selective reading on your part. I specifically mentioned the first six Godzilla films, the first five of which were released in the US between 1956-1965 (MONSTER ZERO was delayed until 1970). That's less than a decade, and the dubs were all done by different studios and sound quite different from each other. A number of different studios dubbed the six Gamera movies released in the US between 1966-1972, and the dubs don't all sound alike. Like I said, the facts show the truth about this stuff.

The anecdote is fine.

If you say so. :laugh:

I even explained each part to you and I covered potential fallacies. The core idea is that if you knew about something and you had the choice between something that suits you better (like less waste) and something that does not quite happen to work then you would make a choice.

It's not always about having a bigger pan. Why not have meatloaf at all?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I thought your analogy was terrible before. Your new explanation just made it even weaker.

My comment also dealt with the reality of the situation. Will listening to an audio track that is decades old and a new crisp and clear audio track in the same language within the same series be awkward? Yes. Will it vary in awkwardness with different people? Yes. Should we stop with rhetorical questions that go on a tangent? Yes.

Hey, I was talking facts. You're the one that brought Katey Sagal's meatloaf into it! :laugh:

The new dub probably will be better because earlier dubs in English were too exaggerated in tone and the scripts were written in a way that fit the most syllables to the video.

That's a matter of personal opinion that I can't speak on since I haven't heard the STRIKES AGAIN dub. I do know that the many tokusatsu fans (including me) prefer the English dubs done in the 1960s and early 1970s by Titra Sound and their dubbing director Peter Fernandez over most of the modern dubs. Titra was based in New York and used a lot of stage actors, so their dubs tended to have good voice performances that fit the appearance and actions of the onscreen characters. Their work is still highly regarded decades later.