Current and Past Pokemon Players, i seek thee!
- Thread starter MetalSymphony
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MetalSymphony
Banned
Back!
:169:
Anyway, i guess my next query is about the Metagame. EV's are another level of consideration that any player worth his salt must take care to observe these days (Ok, in a way they have been around since G1, but they only really began effecting the greater meta in G3), but it seems to make forging a competeive team (or even trade fodder that people will want) even more tedious than before.
How has this "Revolution" impacted team building in G3-G5?
:169:
Anyway, i guess my next query is about the Metagame. EV's are another level of consideration that any player worth his salt must take care to observe these days (Ok, in a way they have been around since G1, but they only really began effecting the greater meta in G3), but it seems to make forging a competeive team (or even trade fodder that people will want) even more tedious than before.
How has this "Revolution" impacted team building in G3-G5?
Zerrock Crisis
The Passing Through Crisis
Basically, EV training in G3-5 gives you an edge by concentrating on at least 2 or 3 stats on a given pokemon. A pokemon EV trained in attack will have more of a punch in offensive power than a non EV-trained pokemon. A pokemon EV trained in defense would theoretically take lesser damage, in speed the pokemon would be faster, etc. No matter the trainer, you want to win. Almost everything in-game has an impact on the metagame.
In addition to having concentrating stats, having the right nature can add more oomph and having the wrong nature can nullify your efforts. When you EV train, it's not uncommon to EV train the pokemon's highest stats. For example, Raichu's highest stat is speed. Ideally you'd want a Raichu with a nature that can boost its speed. The natures that boost speed are timid, hasty, jolly, and naive. The second thing you want to look at are the pokemon's learnable movesets along with its second highest stat. Raichu has a tie in both physical and special attacks as its second highest stat and can learn plenty of moves that fit either stat. If you want a Raichu that specializes in both speed and attack, you don't want a Raichu with either timid (lowers attack) or brave (lowers speed). Likewise with a Raichu concentrated in special attack, you'd want to avoid the natures adamant, impish, careful, and jolly. There are also five natures that are neutral and have no effect if you want to EV train which can be good (if you're not too picky about certain natures like myself) and bad (if you're deadly serious on one specific nature).
With the advent of the power items introduced in G4, EV training has become a lot easier and a lot faster if you play your cards right. If you can manage to get Pokerus and a power item attached to the pokemon you want to EV train and say defeat a Crobat which gives 3 EVs, the power item would increase that by four to about 7, and the condition Pokerus would double that to 14 EVs in a single battle. I think I might be wrong in the math, but that's the basic idea. The vitamins introduced since G1 are also very beneficial to EV training because they can be taken at least 10 times, giving 10 EVs each time, 100 EVs possible. In Gen 3 with the new berry concept, there are 6 berries can decrease the EVs from the stats if you accidentally increased the wrong stat and reverses what the vitamins give.
There's also something called IVs, short for individual values, that a pokemon has to their stats but I'm not that knowledgeable in that area. I hope the explanations I gave aren't too wordy. xD
In addition to having concentrating stats, having the right nature can add more oomph and having the wrong nature can nullify your efforts. When you EV train, it's not uncommon to EV train the pokemon's highest stats. For example, Raichu's highest stat is speed. Ideally you'd want a Raichu with a nature that can boost its speed. The natures that boost speed are timid, hasty, jolly, and naive. The second thing you want to look at are the pokemon's learnable movesets along with its second highest stat. Raichu has a tie in both physical and special attacks as its second highest stat and can learn plenty of moves that fit either stat. If you want a Raichu that specializes in both speed and attack, you don't want a Raichu with either timid (lowers attack) or brave (lowers speed). Likewise with a Raichu concentrated in special attack, you'd want to avoid the natures adamant, impish, careful, and jolly. There are also five natures that are neutral and have no effect if you want to EV train which can be good (if you're not too picky about certain natures like myself) and bad (if you're deadly serious on one specific nature).
With the advent of the power items introduced in G4, EV training has become a lot easier and a lot faster if you play your cards right. If you can manage to get Pokerus and a power item attached to the pokemon you want to EV train and say defeat a Crobat which gives 3 EVs, the power item would increase that by four to about 7, and the condition Pokerus would double that to 14 EVs in a single battle. I think I might be wrong in the math, but that's the basic idea. The vitamins introduced since G1 are also very beneficial to EV training because they can be taken at least 10 times, giving 10 EVs each time, 100 EVs possible. In Gen 3 with the new berry concept, there are 6 berries can decrease the EVs from the stats if you accidentally increased the wrong stat and reverses what the vitamins give.
There's also something called IVs, short for individual values, that a pokemon has to their stats but I'm not that knowledgeable in that area. I hope the explanations I gave aren't too wordy. xD
Dekablue25
Dekablue25 from RangerReview
gen 3 intrduced more into the EV value and natures.like others have said the natures depend on the pokemon you raise but of course every nature has its flaws in it like for example a rash nature grows in special attack but the con is your special defense.competitive battling has started with this generation but mostly it has been owned with the range of the legendary pokemon.
in the 4th gen IV's are shown with the form of characteristics under their nature.IV is what makes pokemon different from the rest.each pokemon has a different IV value and ranges from the 0-31 stat 31 being a perfect flawless pokemon.but IVs are always random.my suggestion is check serebii.net for info on IV's.4th gen is when competitive battling started more serious and more into the craze of battling often with the help of wifi trading.with 493 pokemon during this gen alot of pokemon have gotten evolutions and new items were introduced to help the range of battling reach more and more popular.
as for the metagame in 5th gen its still too early to say what will be used but there are alot of people seeking the new fire/ghost pokemon and the water starter also.when the video game championship comes then you will see what people will be using since this year the rule is all 5th gen pokemon
in competitive battling there are tiers just like in other fighting games a high tier low tier and so forth.in pokemon we have Uber's which are generally pokemon that are overpowered mostly just legendary pokemon like mewtwo deoxys lugia etc.not all legendarys are in the uber category but majority are.a few non legendary pokemon have also made it to the uber category for their strategy and overpowering attack or speed in battles.then there is OU which stand for overused.these pokemon are what's mostly used often in battles or have been seen alot of trainer's party for battling.borderline are pokemon that are ones used occasionally but not alot just here and there in battles but show some potential.then there are UU or underused which are pokemon that rarely are used in battle but will pop up in a random match.
in the 4th gen IV's are shown with the form of characteristics under their nature.IV is what makes pokemon different from the rest.each pokemon has a different IV value and ranges from the 0-31 stat 31 being a perfect flawless pokemon.but IVs are always random.my suggestion is check serebii.net for info on IV's.4th gen is when competitive battling started more serious and more into the craze of battling often with the help of wifi trading.with 493 pokemon during this gen alot of pokemon have gotten evolutions and new items were introduced to help the range of battling reach more and more popular.
as for the metagame in 5th gen its still too early to say what will be used but there are alot of people seeking the new fire/ghost pokemon and the water starter also.when the video game championship comes then you will see what people will be using since this year the rule is all 5th gen pokemon
in competitive battling there are tiers just like in other fighting games a high tier low tier and so forth.in pokemon we have Uber's which are generally pokemon that are overpowered mostly just legendary pokemon like mewtwo deoxys lugia etc.not all legendarys are in the uber category but majority are.a few non legendary pokemon have also made it to the uber category for their strategy and overpowering attack or speed in battles.then there is OU which stand for overused.these pokemon are what's mostly used often in battles or have been seen alot of trainer's party for battling.borderline are pokemon that are ones used occasionally but not alot just here and there in battles but show some potential.then there are UU or underused which are pokemon that rarely are used in battle but will pop up in a random match.
MetalSymphony
Banned
Thanks again guys!
Damn....your making me want to start buying these games again :shakefist
Ill get back with more queries later today
Damn....your making me want to start buying these games again :shakefist
Ill get back with more queries later today
Skiks
Member
I'd like to add a bit that IVs while useful in wifi battles aren't too relevant beyond hidden power. IVs are useful in close match however your skills can compensate for not so perfect IVs. EVs in Gen 2 were very simplistic. Every stat could hold 255 evs. So there was no reason to plan out your ev gaining. In gen 3 is when EVs were limited to 510. This meant at max you could only have 255 between two stats as thats the ev cap for each stat.
However since only 4 evs = 1 stat point the max you should use is 252. as 4 doesn't divide into 255 without remainders. You give the left over evs to some other stat usually speed just because 1 extra stat point would help.
Hidden power is affected by IVs though. It's what determines the hidden power type and it's attack power. Usually I just avoid pokemon that rely on hidden power to make their sets better.
As for items here's a quick run down:
Power items: depending on the stat they help they add 4 plus evs after each match. Even if the pokemon fought doesn't give off the same evs. You have to take this into account that when you start on a different stat you remove this item or it might mess up your count
Vitamins: Each vitamin gives 10 evs till the stat reaches 100 evs. It's best to use these on a freshly caught pokemon because if your pokemon already has 100 evs in any stat you want to raise with this it won't work.
Gen 5 wings: Each wing gives off 1 ev. They don't have any limits but it takes a long time to collect them as they show up on the bridge randomly.
Pokrus: If you happen to catch this it raises all evs after a battle x2. So if you have a power item it's work liek this (evs from fought pokemon + 4 from the power item) * 2
Macho Brace: Doubles the evs gained after a match. With pokrus it works like this (evs gained from pokemon * 2 * 2)
However since only 4 evs = 1 stat point the max you should use is 252. as 4 doesn't divide into 255 without remainders. You give the left over evs to some other stat usually speed just because 1 extra stat point would help.
Hidden power is affected by IVs though. It's what determines the hidden power type and it's attack power. Usually I just avoid pokemon that rely on hidden power to make their sets better.
As for items here's a quick run down:
Power items: depending on the stat they help they add 4 plus evs after each match. Even if the pokemon fought doesn't give off the same evs. You have to take this into account that when you start on a different stat you remove this item or it might mess up your count
Vitamins: Each vitamin gives 10 evs till the stat reaches 100 evs. It's best to use these on a freshly caught pokemon because if your pokemon already has 100 evs in any stat you want to raise with this it won't work.
Gen 5 wings: Each wing gives off 1 ev. They don't have any limits but it takes a long time to collect them as they show up on the bridge randomly.
Pokrus: If you happen to catch this it raises all evs after a battle x2. So if you have a power item it's work liek this (evs from fought pokemon + 4 from the power item) * 2
Macho Brace: Doubles the evs gained after a match. With pokrus it works like this (evs gained from pokemon * 2 * 2)
Last edited:
Icefish
Member
This. I've been curious about many of the topics brought up in this thread, mainly because I was on my way out of interest when they started showing up and I just didn't (and, after review, still don't really) care about such min-maxing...but damn if this doesn't make me want to go pick up one of the new games when I get paid this week.
Impulse87
Member
Other big things to take into account are the movesets of your pokemon, especially if you're serious about battling, most people will only have a few same type moves as their pokemon in order to get a STAB (same type attack bonus), however in competitive battling a lot of pokemon usually have one or two STAB moves plus a move or two used to take out their counters/walls or a stat boosting move to set up a sweep. Such as giving Lucario swords dance so it can power up its attack and go for a speed or a togetic nasty plot
Some pokemon work out really well together as well just because they cover each other's weaknesses really well which also affects the overall strucutre of your team. Teams play a big role as well, stall teams, sandstorm, hail teams, and with the advent of drought ninetails and drizzle politoed, sunny day teams, and rainstorm teams are an inevitability
too bad sandstorm is so damn prevalent, they need more powerful drought, drizzle and snow warning users :shakefist
Some pokemon work out really well together as well just because they cover each other's weaknesses really well which also affects the overall strucutre of your team. Teams play a big role as well, stall teams, sandstorm, hail teams, and with the advent of drought ninetails and drizzle politoed, sunny day teams, and rainstorm teams are an inevitability
too bad sandstorm is so damn prevalent, they need more powerful drought, drizzle and snow warning users :shakefist
Zerrock Crisis
The Passing Through Crisis
Some people even go as far as training teams of baby pokemon which would be a lot of work to order to be breed/trained the right moves. Baby teams, while most of the time not as effective as fully evolved ones, when the right stats and moves are made be wary that they can sweep both evolved and legendary pokemon alike. You can find a handful of these battles on youtube, but they're mostly for fun purposes.
Competitive battles can also have a bit of surprise to them too. Again with the battle videos on youtube people can come up with some interesting strategies both good and bad. This is an old video, but pay close attention to the very end. FEAR Pokemon, while very easy to counter, is what I would think to be a gutsy strategy. IIRC official tournaments have banned this tactic.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4inQANztwd4"]YouTube - Marriland vs. Untouchable[/ame]
Competitive battles can also have a bit of surprise to them too. Again with the battle videos on youtube people can come up with some interesting strategies both good and bad. This is an old video, but pay close attention to the very end. FEAR Pokemon, while very easy to counter, is what I would think to be a gutsy strategy. IIRC official tournaments have banned this tactic.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4inQANztwd4"]YouTube - Marriland vs. Untouchable[/ame]
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