Batman/Superman Movie Next?

[Sage Shinigami]

I honestly don't see how people think it's not a good Superman film. And it's not just you, obviously, I've heard it a bunch. I think it's a GREAT Superman film, the only good live action Superman film, and the closest live action representation of Big Blue we've had.

I'm a huge Superman fan and I was very, very happy with the film.

Nope. It's a good superhero film, but not only is it an awful Superman film, its not even a good DC Comics film. If you're trying to build up a universe and you KNOW you are, shouldn't you be setting that up from film 1? That's why the end of Iron Man had a scene with Nick Fury at the end and teased the Avengers back in 2008, even though it wouldn't pay off until 2012. It wasn't much, just something small to get fans hyped up.

Man of Steel had like, a pair of tiny easter eggs. And either you, or someone else is going to say, "Well that's good! They were trying to do [insert some argument about make Superman standalone first]." But come on. You really think they care like that? That's not what happened. Man of Steel was an insulated film that featured only the characters they needed to have, didn't allude to any outside elements for the DC Universe, and didn't even bother to have a teaser scene at the end. Why? Because if it failed, that meant they didn't have to follow up on anything. If this hadn't stuck to the wall, they would've tried a different film to be the beginning of their DC Movie-verse and would have pretended this film never happened.

As far as being a Superman film? No, because the film only has one scene that involes the sense of wonder that should come with a Superman movie: the flying scene. This is a scene that lasts...at best, two minutes. More likely, a minute and fifteen seconds. Before and after that, it's too busy being your average sci-fi flick, managing to qualify for the superhero genre because there's a costume involved. I mean let's face it: This film is mostly about Jor-El. HE sends Superman to Earth, the fact that he gave Superman the matrix is what brought Zod there, HE taught Lois how to create the device that would send them back. He's honestly the character with the most agency, even though he dies in the earliest parts of the film.

Now, in all fairness its a GREAT science fiction film. AND Superman has science fiction elements to him. But again, they let those elements take over the film. Hence the frankly embarrassing amounts of disaster porn present. And I LIKED the fight scenes, and would've called it a great film if it had been about someone else.

And no, no I don't want the classic Reeves film. I've never even seen it. I don't want Silver Age Superman. I never read about that guy. No, I want Superman: Birthright. I want All-Star Superman. Hell, I'll take Superman: Secret Origin. Anything where Superman is both the most important character in the story, AND unquestionably an inspiration to the people around him.

And don't even get me started on the heavy-handed Jesus metaphors. Every time I see the film from now on I WILL skip that scene with Superman leaving Zod's ship.

 

[Galaxian]

I'm pretty sure that if the title does have "VS" in it, it will be just for hype.

A lot of times that Batman and Superman have met, they end up fighting at the beginning, so I'm sure that the two will butt heads with each other for the first two acts of the film and then work together to fix the mess their "argument" caused in the third act.

 

[MrSteve]

No, because the film only has one scene that involes the sense of wonder that should come with a Superman movie: the flying scene.

Now see, I think this is why we fundamentally disagree on the film. I don't think Superman is, or should be, about a "sense of wonder." I think Superman is about hope and someone being as good as they can, an so happening to have the powers to do more.

That was in the movie, for me. It was beaming with hope and simple "goodness."

I agree, there wasn't much "wonder" in the film. You're totally right about that! But for me, that has nothing to do with Superman.

 

[Sage Shinigami]

Now see, I think this is why we fundamentally disagree on the film. I don't think Superman is, or should be, about a "sense of wonder." I think Superman is about hope and someone being as good as they can, an so happening to have the powers to do more.

That was in the movie, for me. It was beaming with hope and simple "goodness."

I agree, there wasn't much "wonder" in the film. You're totally right about that! But for me, that has nothing to do with Superman.

Wonder and hope go hand in hand. And no, there was no hope in the film. In fact...there's one thing I saw on Twitter that I thought about and it was completely true. It's the biggest problem with the film, and the most damning criticism of the movie I can think of: "Earth would have been better off if Kal-El had died on Krypton."

Beaming with hope? You're certainly welcome to your own opinion, but I personally believe there's more hope in your average Iron Man film. Hell, there was certainly more in the Avengers.

 

[MMPR]

Now see, I think this is why we fundamentally disagree on the film. I don't think Superman is, or should be, about a "sense of wonder." I think Superman is about hope and someone being as good as they can, an so happening to have the powers to do more.

That was in the movie, for me. It was beaming with hope and simple "goodness."

I agree, there wasn't much "wonder" in the film. You're totally right about that! But for me, that has nothing to do with Superman.

"Beaming with hope and goodness"?

He fucking destroyed Metropolis

 

[MattComix]

He fucking destroyed Metropolis

Zod, his ship, and his World Engine took out a section of Metropolis with various other damage throughout but not a total destruction of the entire city which many people had evacuated from when that was going on. He was in a pitched battle trying to stop Zod who basically went insane (a path he was already headed towards to begin with) once Zod decided the mission was failed and felt that there was nothing to live for except killing humans in order to hurt Clark.

Zods arch is basically his degeneration from a man to a monster that happens as a result of his inability to see past his genetic programming. The destruction of Krypton is more than just the explosion in this film and Zods deeds are the last gasp of what that world had become.

 

[Sage Shinigami]

Zod, his ship, and his World Engine took out a section of Metropolis with various other damage throughout but not a total destruction of the entire city which many people had evacuated from when that was going on. He was in a pitched battle trying to stop Zod who basically went insane (a path he was already headed towards to begin with) once Zod decided the mission was failed and felt that there was nothing to live for except killing humans in order to hurt Clark.

Zods arch is basically his degeneration from a man to a monster that happens as a result of his inability to see past his genetic programming. The destruction of Krypton is more than just the explosion in this film and Zods deeds are the last gasp of what that world had become.

If you pay real close attention, you can see people being raised into the air by the gravity machine. Just tossing that out there.

By the way: I would've been more okay with this if they hadn't created the second machine. It's fake super-science, why not have one machine instead of two? It keeps Clark in Metropolis in an attempt to y'know, SAVE people.

 

[KingRanger]

Zod, his ship, and his World Engine took out a section of Metropolis with various other damage throughout but not a total destruction of the entire city which many people had evacuated from when that was going on. He was in a pitched battle trying to stop Zod who basically went insane (a path he was already headed towards to begin with) once Zod decided the mission was failed and felt that there was nothing to live for except killing humans in order to hurt Clark.

Zods arch is basically his degeneration from a man to a monster that happens as a result of his inability to see past his genetic programming. The destruction of Krypton is more than just the explosion in this film and Zods deeds are the last gasp of what that world had become.

Superman could have grabbed him and flown him out over the ocean, over mountains or any other unpopulated area.

 

[MattComix]

If you pay real close attention, you can see people being raised into the air by the gravity machine. Just tossing that out there.

I'm not saying no one got hurt, I'm just saying that it's not like everyone was just sitting in their offices and homes minding their own business when two superbeings tore through them and Zod is the one who fired that World Engine, not Clark.

Superman could have grabbed him and flown him out over the ocean, over mountains or any other unpopulated area.

In my view the fight was an intense situation, you have to remember that Zod has those powers to so it's not going to be that simple. But I agree that the movie doesn't do enough to convey the idea of Superman attempting to get the fight out of there which is something I mentioned in my review:

http://forums.henshinjustice.net/showpost.php?p=1669251&postcount=42

 

[MrSteve]

I'm not saying no one got hurt, I'm just saying that it's not like everyone was just sitting in their offices and homes minding their own business when two superbeings tore through

This times infinity.

Yes, the gravity machine killed people. There's no doubt. And Superman stopped it.

They purposefully put the camera inside several buildings that Zod and Superman fight around/in to establish that they are empty.

And even IF the camera wasn't placed in there to specifically show you the buildings were empty, why would anyone chill in their offices as they see buildings getting smashed closer and closer to where they are? Hell no, they hauled ass as far away from that area as possible.

As for "Superman should have taken him away from there!" I have two responses.

1. This is Superman on his first day of being Superman ever. He makes mistakes and probably was too busy REALLY fighting for the first time in his entire life to be able to think like a strategic genius about how to best handle the fight. Not to mention that the BEST part of Superman is the "man" part of him who makes mistakes. He's not perfect, and assuming that he is or always makes the correct decisions leads me to believe you only think of the IDEAL of Superman, not the actual character (who has messed up plenty over the years).

2. One of the men in the fight knows his powers far better and has had them for his entire life. However, he was raised on a farm and has never fought anything. The other is not only a military general, but his DNA is bred to be the best soldier possible. Who do YOU think controls where the fight stays? (spoilers, it's not the kid from Kansas).