Japaneseseriesfan
A simple passerby...
Oh, and the pun is writing itself. Zi-O is THE King. and Den-O is the Train King... Knowing Toei, they could write a whole script involving that theme alone.
2018-2019 Kamen Rider
- Thread starter Toku Prime
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K
Kamen Rider IXA
Guest
Den-O is still the most popular series in Japan. Toei stuff hasn't really been pushing it during last 6-7 years (Imagin popped up here and there in cameos, but the last relevant Den-O focused piece of media was OOO x Den-O movie iirc) yet people still vote for this series as their favourite, so there is apperently a demand for Den-O reagrdless of what Toei does with it.
Black Fang
Active Member
Kuuga, Agito and Ryuki weep.
K
Kamen Rider IXA
Guest
Hey, it's not like I'm happy with it either.
I don't really understand why people love Imagins so much.
Japaneseseriesfan
A simple passerby...
Maybe because it's dumb, fun comedy? Plenty of people would rather ruin sophisticated, intellectual or grounded stories with hearts of gold with dumb, fun comedy to justify their lack of morality.
Shogun_Master
Why is every good TV show Cancelled
To be completely honest, while Den-O isn't the worst (at least it had a decent payoff that didn't make me feel like I'd just wasted 17 hours of my life) I agree that it isn't that great. The sad thing is, given how Japanese society is, with this weird obsession with everything having an exact, perfect place in the world & people being ridiculed or shunned for either liking something that isn't age or gender appropriate (They have "Adult" candy, for christ's sake & the only difference is that the adult candy says adult on it), I have to assume that the love over Den-O isn't based on anything rational or realistic. Maybe, the cool train theme made kids feel like it was easier to get away with giving the show open affection, so it's remembered more fondly, or something. At least, out of the more recent seasons.
On top of that, the last movie kind of hinted at the fact that most of today's kids have never even heard of Kuuga & the really old audience is more classic rider obsessed (for reasons that I also can't quite fathom. Amazon, Black & Black RX are also not the worst things I've ever seen, but super old-school comicbook-y & not as good writing or logic as most of the Heisei stuff), so the early 2000s seasons are probably just like a "hidden gem" thing over there.
On top of that, the last movie kind of hinted at the fact that most of today's kids have never even heard of Kuuga & the really old audience is more classic rider obsessed (for reasons that I also can't quite fathom. Amazon, Black & Black RX are also not the worst things I've ever seen, but super old-school comicbook-y & not as good writing or logic as most of the Heisei stuff), so the early 2000s seasons are probably just like a "hidden gem" thing over there.
Toku Prime
Well-Known Member
I'd love to write a big long post explaining why Den-O was the best season since Kuuga ended, but first there's more news to report on!
It has been announced that Kamen Rider Drive alumni Yu Inaba and Chris Peppler will both be returning as Go Shijima (a.k.a. Kamen Rider Mach) and Krim Steinbelt (a.k.a. Belt-san). Both men recently appeared in the two-part Kamen Rider Brain special and now both will appear in Zi-O's summer movie. At the time of posting, Drive is one of the remaining Riders whose power has not been obtained by Sougo within the series.
It has been announced that Kamen Rider Drive alumni Yu Inaba and Chris Peppler will both be returning as Go Shijima (a.k.a. Kamen Rider Mach) and Krim Steinbelt (a.k.a. Belt-san). Both men recently appeared in the two-part Kamen Rider Brain special and now both will appear in Zi-O's summer movie. At the time of posting, Drive is one of the remaining Riders whose power has not been obtained by Sougo within the series.
Japaneseseriesfan
A simple passerby...
I'd love to read that. I doubt I'll agree, but I'm interested in what you can bring up to say it was the best season since Kuuga ended. Frankly, I'd say plenty of other seasons that came out before Den-O are pretty great and do a great job of succeeding in Kuuga's footsteps, but that's just me judging it from a mixed of semi-objective/subjective lens.
Hangyakuno
Lurker
Den-O was good. The only thing ruined it is because TOEI keep milking it and add new rule every movie.
I can say, its series make its own mark in Kamen Rider history just like Kuuga. After Den-O, Kamen Rider become less edgy but sadly never look natural or as entertaining as Den-O can be. The closest one is Build, chemistry between the four rider and their sidekick was exactly like how Taros and other human cast.
I can say, its series make its own mark in Kamen Rider history just like Kuuga. After Den-O, Kamen Rider become less edgy but sadly never look natural or as entertaining as Den-O can be. The closest one is Build, chemistry between the four rider and their sidekick was exactly like how Taros and other human cast.
Japaneseseriesfan
A simple passerby...
I find the term "edgy" very questionable. Mostly because nowadays, it's just a buzzword. I didn't like it when people threw it around with Sasuke or some of the Uchihas in Naruto, because that's dismissing a lot of nuance that goes into fleshing out the characters to begin with, and I don't really condone the use of it outside of using it to describe someone using those tropes associated with it just for the sake of using them and portraying it completely over the top in the most non-sensical ways possible or portraying them so by the books that it's been overdone to death.
In that respect, I could give the same criticism to Den-O for being completely dumb when it didn't need to even need to be in it's own runtime. Not to mention, Kai appearing out of nowhere during the last arc just detracts it from ever being anywhere near as good as Kuuga ever was. Like, Ryuki and Blade, despite whatever shortcomings they had, still managed to make up for it by giving a very satisfying ending, or multiple versions of the ending itself. Den-O's Kai arc felt a lot like Kabuto's last arc with the last boss being Mishima. Out of nowhere. At least with Kabuto, Mishima was kind of always around from the start, with Kai it was just implied that Ryutaros was sent by him, but that was never mentioned nor hinted again until it kicked into full gear.
Kuuga still did it best. The confrontation between Daguva was built up since episode 1 since he revive the Grongi, and when you finally get to that last episode, no OST or any other flashy noise was needed. It was just pure catharsis to see those two finally duking at it. The Death Imagin on the other hand? Yeah, I don't know, I always tend to say a story's greatest asset is what it's main villain has to offer and how closely they tie back into being the antithesis of the main protagonist that's been shown so far.
Den-O's concepts are great. It was probably one of the most unique in terms of Early Heisei. But concepts alone do not make up all of story telling. I think Kobayashi just had a bunch of these great concepts in place but didn't flesh them out as neatly as she could have because of how much the show just focused on the it's dumb comedy to make people laugh rather than going into lore building.
In that respect, I could give the same criticism to Den-O for being completely dumb when it didn't need to even need to be in it's own runtime. Not to mention, Kai appearing out of nowhere during the last arc just detracts it from ever being anywhere near as good as Kuuga ever was. Like, Ryuki and Blade, despite whatever shortcomings they had, still managed to make up for it by giving a very satisfying ending, or multiple versions of the ending itself. Den-O's Kai arc felt a lot like Kabuto's last arc with the last boss being Mishima. Out of nowhere. At least with Kabuto, Mishima was kind of always around from the start, with Kai it was just implied that Ryutaros was sent by him, but that was never mentioned nor hinted again until it kicked into full gear.
Kuuga still did it best. The confrontation between Daguva was built up since episode 1 since he revive the Grongi, and when you finally get to that last episode, no OST or any other flashy noise was needed. It was just pure catharsis to see those two finally duking at it. The Death Imagin on the other hand? Yeah, I don't know, I always tend to say a story's greatest asset is what it's main villain has to offer and how closely they tie back into being the antithesis of the main protagonist that's been shown so far.
Den-O's concepts are great. It was probably one of the most unique in terms of Early Heisei. But concepts alone do not make up all of story telling. I think Kobayashi just had a bunch of these great concepts in place but didn't flesh them out as neatly as she could have because of how much the show just focused on the it's dumb comedy to make people laugh rather than going into lore building.
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