Zyuden Sentai Kyoryuger EP 17 - "Rock solid! Kyoryu Gray!"

[lazycoconut]

I'm sorry, but I am going to have to assume you didn't even watch the episode. The guy isn't that personal about it at all. He wants a functioning team that can continue to grow with the enemy, and as the episode showed: Daigo is, currently, stuck. From his standpoint (this is a guy who is older and has more experience than even our Utchy, mind), he's merely helping the team be the best it can be - and from a logical standpoint, if you have a leader that can't grow stronger IS a problem.

But RESENT? That's a ridiculously strong word for such a calm character, especially one we just met AND especially considering we're probably going to see that he's just trying to train/test Daigo with this little subplot anyway.

Yes, I did watch the episode and, yes, he didn't show any outward sign of resentment. I just can't see any reason for anyone to object to Daigo being competent (from an in-story perspective ... or even from an audience perspective, but each to their own.) The whole thing seems paradoxical to me. If Daigo can't grow stronger because he's already strong enough, what's the problem?

And it's one we desperately needed, I think. Daigo really has been far too perfect AND he's gotten zero focus episodes, really. This is killing two decently sized birds with one well thought out stone, I think.

How can he be "too perfect?" The hero is supposed to be perfect

 

[Wing Saber]

The problem with someome being "perfect" is that where would go with him. Since he can overcome anything without any adversity. Which is why Tessai washed him out for being too perfect for own good. So for Daigo to overcome whatever weakness through struggling will eventually make him stronger.

 

[HurricaneDragon]

Yes, I did watch the episode and, yes, he didn't show any outward sign of resentment. I just can't see any reason for anyone to object to Daigo being competent (from an in-story perspective ... or even from an audience perspective, but each to their own.) The whole thing seems paradoxical to me. If Daigo can't grow stronger because he's already strong enough, what's the problem?

How can he be "too perfect?" The hero is supposed to be perfect

... But that's the problem, and that's why I asked if you watched the episode. He wasn't strong enough.

And no, not really. When you have perfect characters is when you have terms like Gary Stu getting thrown around, and then it becomes harder for the audience to relate. Flaws make characters human and inherently more relatable. Perfection is good to strive for, sure, but its because its unattainable that we strive so hard for it in the first place. At least partly.

I don't know, haha, this conversation is getting weird and I hope I'm not offending you here. I think at the end of the day we'll see Grey was just testing him, wanting to help him find a way to grow stronger, and all that good, wholesome, monkish stuff. Isn't that what counts?

The problem with someome being "perfect" is that where would go with him. Since he can overcome anything without any adversity. Which is why Tessai washed him out for being too perfect for own good. So for Daigo to overcome whatever weakness through struggling will eventually make him stronger.

Pretty much this - and from a writing perspective, it's hard to have a perfect character. Unless you want no problems, no conflict, no nothing, you HAVE to do something about it - so I think making the perfection the problem in itself was a great idea.

 

[lazycoconut]

... But that's the problem, and that's why I asked if you watched the episode. He wasn't strong enough.

And no, not really. When you have perfect characters is when you have terms like Gary Stu getting thrown around, and then it becomes harder for the audience to relate. Flaws make characters human and inherently more relatable. Perfection is good to strive for, sure, but its because its unattainable that we strive so hard for it in the first place. At least partly.

I think we just watch the shows for different reasons. I like Sentai for power fantasies in which the heroes are good and good is always perfect/right. Maybe it's comparable to something like soap operas - there are the "kitchen sink" ones where people have realistic problems like debt and teen pregnancy and stuff, and then there's the ones like Dallas/Dynasty where everyone's rich, beautiful and flawless

I don't know, haha, this conversation is getting weird and I hope I'm not offending you here. I think at the end of the day we'll see Grey was just testing him, wanting to help him find a way to grow stronger, and all that good, wholesome, monkish stuff. Isn't that what counts?

I guess so? I'm sorry to come across a little strong. Nothing wrong with liking stuff for different reasons.

 

[Toku Prime]

I just can't see any reason for anyone to object to Daigo being competent (from an in-story perspective ... or even from an audience perspective, but each to their own.) The whole thing seems paradoxical to me. If Daigo can't grow stronger because he's already strong enough, what's the problem?

Kyoryu Grey freely admits he has one thing that he's good at. He's a specialist. The four that passed also had one particular thing that they specialise in. They can focus it, improve it, and therefore become "stronger" in the same way that he did. Daigo is a jack of all trades. He has no particular weakness but there's no one thing that he specialises in either. He doesn't have any one thing to focus on and get even better at. Kyoryu Grey's view is blinkered - he grew strong through specialising and can't see that there could be other ways to grow.

Am I mistaken or was that Yao Kazuki voicing Meeteor?

 

[Hidden Masta]

Why are you all blaming Grey? It's Bunpachy that told him Red has to go and if he ain't good enough to beat Meteor-dude then maybe he should just get lost and let Grey join the team!


Why didn't the Meteor monster have one of those little faces somewhere on his body? Or did I just not see it?

 

[KingRanger]

I don't even care about all this stuff people are saying about Daigo. The entire team is excellent. They all bring things to the team and they all have their weaknesses. Daigo, like all the others, is going through changes. I am loving every episode of this Sentai because there is so much with each character.

 

[Undrave]

Why didn't the Meteor monster have one of those little faces somewhere on his body? Or did I just not see it?

He didn't have one. I don't think Virsun and Iceage had one either. These guys don't seem to have any emotion collecting purpose and are just enforcers who destroy stuff.

 

[ClimaxHeroDen-O]

I'm sorry, but I am going to have to assume you didn't even watch the episode. The guy isn't that personal about it at all. He wants a functioning team that can continue to grow with the enemy, and as the episode showed: Daigo is, currently, stuck. From his standpoint (this is a guy who is older and has more experience than even our Utchy, mind), he's merely helping the team be the best it can be - and from a logical standpoint, if you have a leader that can't grow stronger IS a problem.

But RESENT? That's a ridiculously strong word for such a calm character, especially one we just met AND especially considering we're probably going to see that he's just trying to train/test Daigo with this little subplot anyway.

And it's one we desperately needed, I think. Daigo really has been far too perfect AND he's gotten zero focus episodes, really. This is killing two decently sized birds with one well thought out stone, I think.

That, and I am LOVING Grey's design. Shame on the people who were complaining because of the color!

seriously? Daigo has had focus episodes, heck, the first episode was pretty much centered around him. the thing is that usually he shares the focus with another character, and he just hasn't exactly gotten development.

so in that sense, the next episode will balance him out and likely improve him as a character, and for me, he's been my favorite since episode 1, so this is certainly a nice thing

besides, perfect or flawed, Daigo is just a fun character, and is the perfect red for a season with the kind of vibe that Kyoryuger has

 

[SamuraiEchidna]

Wow! Everything is new, shiny, and personalized!

--They are questioning the Paramonster count NOW of all times? Maybe it's just me, but since when has the minion head count ever mattered before? They're just cannon fodder! :sweat:
--Yay! A new Opening! It's so-- Oh. It's just here to promote the movie. Nevermind... :shrug:
--Ah! Tessai, the real Chinaman. Does he have any kind of accent or vocabulary limitations? As far as I can tell, for a warrior from China, his Japanese is perfect! ...Also, Cyan cameos! Nice. :thumbs:
--New eye catches! Really nice. :coolshades:
--First to finish AND had it worse than the others?! YES! King earned his nickname this day! This is why I friggin' love this character. :anime:
--And an updated roll call! Kyoryuger, y u so epic? :anime:
--I know the show said it in a way that makes more sense, but to me, it just sounds like Gray taught them "if at first you don't succeed, try-try again!" :sly:
--Now that's a plot twist! King can't increase his power like the others? He's stuck where he is? How do you improve on perfection? He went from earning his title to having it in question, all in one episode! I LOVE it when Sentai does two-parters like this and takes its time to give us something really epic.
--And we finish with a new ending, of course. :169:

You know, at first, I wasn't sure if this episode was going to give me enough to talk about, but I was wrong. Never doubt an episode that introduces a new Ranger! :thumbs:

Also, I'd just like to add to this Daigo conversation...
I can see why this episode has become a big debating point. The episode is confused in what it's trying to say. Perfect isn't the right word to describe Daigo. They wanted to show him stuck and unable to evolve as a character, but their execution was flawed. They aren't sure if he needs to improve skill wise or if he needs to improve as a person/character. Is he trying to become even stronger than he thinks he is, are they trying to show him the limitations that not even he knew he had, is he too confident for his own good, what?!

It's like the show is saying "To become even better than you all ready are, you have to understand what it feels like to be weak and/or limited. Even if that means knocking you down a peg or two." And that might be necessary for other characters who aren't humble or friendly in the least bit, heck it even applies more to characters like Haruto from Wizard, but I just don't think it applies to King...

I wouldn't say King is a Gary Stu character, because he has had a few idiotic moments, but I can see that he has walked a razors edge with being relatable or unrelatable. To me, this show has the right balance. King was the naturally skilled leader who could always find a way out of his troubles, but was also a lovable idiot. The kind who doesn't realize how talented he is, who is not arrogant or boastful, but just wants to have friends or be a team player. And he's always there to be the glue that holds this team of misfits together or cheer them on when they are going through their own personal development.