Y3K's Very Interesting Essay About SPD

[HaiTien78]

Honestly this thread has escalated for more than its worth. It became people taking one tiny thing that someone else said and using it to attack them. Basically everyone on all sides are making long ass posts about pratically NOTHING of importance. Everyone here is trying to turn their opinion into fact and cram on another person. Jesus fucking christ people, If one person wants to treat Power Rangers seriously FINE if one person wants to treat Power Rangers as fictional entertainment with no seriousness FINE, just stop bitching to one another saying your opinion is better than theirs and trying to cram your opinion down someone else's throat. All of you making yourselves look pretty stupid argueing over something that does not need to be argued over. It's basically this, two sides have very opposite opinions and are trying to cram it down each others throats taking every little thing their opponent says and exploiting it, making a long ass counter opinion about nothing.

Honestly people, stop bitching about it and go do something better with your lives

What's with everyone wanting a series (not just PR, this applies to ANY series) to constantly make everything related to everything else? Don't try to force the past on the present. Let the present flesh itself out.

Well PR is always connected to one another, but as for Toku, now adays we rarely get to see a serious connected to a previous universe.

 

[Z-Unit]

Power Rangers is serious business, you know.

 

[Dora Ebi]

Honestly this thread has escalated for more than its worth. It became people taking one tiny thing that someone else said and using it to attack them. Basically everyone on all sides are making long ass posts about pratically NOTHING of importance. Everyone here is trying to turn their opinion into fact and cram on another person. Jesus fucking christ people, If one person wants to treat Power Rangers seriously FINE if one person wants to treat Power Rangers as fictional entertainment with no seriousness FINE, just stop bitching to one another saying your opinion is better than theirs and trying to cram your opinion down someone else's throat. All of you making yourselves look pretty stupid argueing over something that does not need to be argued over. It's basically this, two sides have very opposite opinions and are trying to cram it down each others throats taking every little thing their opponent says and exploiting it, making a long ass counter opinion about nothing.

... Who has attacked anyone here, except people who think Tom is "thinking too much?" You act like the people who hold PR to a high standard are lashing out at others, which couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm genuinely curious about what Keith thinks of these shows, considering what he says his criteria for enjoying fiction are.

Similarly, you want to tell me that Tom's essay is speaking at great length about nothing much in particular? You want to tell me that's what I've been doing? Zarius? JABR? Bullshit. There's been some magnificent correspondence and genuine communication going on in this thread. I haven't seen people from different sects of the fandom, with different interests, speak this civilly in YEARS.

Telling fans it's wrong for them to intellectualize the show, or that they're WRONG for doing so, is part of what drove me from the fan community even before Rangerboard's monkey business did away with me. Thinking about PR is (paradoxically) "dumb." Hell, look at your ghastly little icon there, deriding fans for thinking PR is serious. Then you try and spin it that no, it's okay for fans to think about PR -- just don't do it here?

I recall Bruce demanding Mo tell him who I was and how to contact me. I actually got a call from Mo in the middle of Youmacon informing me that Bruce really fucking hates me. He wanted to yell at me. And really, that's been the general tone of the fandom since '05. You may not like the subject of this conversation, but what you're doing is basically asking people to quell it because you don't like the subjects it hews into. Well, tough. Conversations like this are needed, are HEALTHY for a fandom.

Honestly people, stop bitching about it and go do something better with your lives

You know, it's almost a cliche that when people can't form a logical argument on the internet, they will use one of two tactics. They will either call the other party Nazis, or they will claim the other party "has no life" and should do something else. Ignoring, of course, that their own bitching would indicate they have even less of a life -- after all, when would they find the time to keep up on websites in such busy lives?

This post took me five minutes to compose. I clocked it. That's a drop in the bucket on a Sunday afternoon. How long did yours take? How long was it to create that picture, by comparison?

 

[nickraman]

He wanted to yell at me. And really, that's been the general tone of the fandom since '05.

That must explain the degrading incompetence and quality we saw/watching in his seasons and Overdrive.

 

[HaiTien78]

... Who has attacked anyone here, except people who think Tom is "thinking too much?" You act like the people who hold PR to a high standard are lashing out at others, which couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm genuinely curious about what Keith thinks of these shows, considering what he says his criteria for enjoying fiction are.

Similarly, you want to tell me that Tom's essay is speaking at great length about nothing much in particular? You want to tell me that's what I've been doing? Zarius? JABR? Bullshit. There's been some magnificent correspondence and genuine communication going on in this thread. I haven't seen people from different sects of the fandom, with different interests, speak this civilly in YEARS.

Telling fans it's wrong for them to intellectualize the show, or that they're WRONG for doing so, is part of what drove me from the fan community even before Rangerboard's monkey business did away with me. Thinking about PR is (paradoxically) "dumb." Hell, look at your ghastly little icon there, deriding fans for thinking PR is serious. Then you try and spin it that no, it's okay for fans to think about PR -- just don't do it here?


You know, it's almost a cliche that when people can't form a logical argument on the internet, they will use one of two tactics. They will either call the other party Nazis, or they will claim the other party "has no life" and should do something else. Ignoring, of course, that their own bitching would indicate they have even less of a life -- after all, when would they find the time to keep up on websites in such busy lives?

This post took me five minutes to compose. I clocked it. That's a drop in the bucket on a Sunday afternoon. How long did yours take? How long was it to create that picture, by comparison?

Please tell me how I acted so in the bolded phrase, because I do not hold PR to any high standards. And yes those are the attackers I was referring too.

You obviously misunderstood the post and the picture.

I was talking about some of the posts people were making, not the actual essay. The Essay is his opinion. What my post was about are all the people bitching at each other because they don't like that person's opinion, and trying to change that person's opinion. Such as the people hating on the essay because they think SPD should not be thought in depth. If you ask me, if you wanna think in depth, go for it, if not, fine. I was asking for people to stop cramming your opinion down someone elses throat, but I see there has been decent posts here. Not stop the whole topic in general. Yes I did generalize in that post though, not everyone has been doing what I said. But why I think some of these lengthy posts are nothing of importance because most of that length comes from citing examples, explaining every detail about your point, etc. when only so much needs to be said to get your point across.

Remember when I said taking one little thing and exploiting it for more than its worth? this is what I was talking about first off that was not meant to be an attack, moreover as a statement, "Do something better with your lives" was not meant to be a insult, I was just stating that if all you are going to do is argue (or discuss) with every little thing someone else says, wouldn't you, or the person you are argueing/discussing with have better things to be doing? is it really necessary to make a half page reply to one sentence? Hell all of you that are going into depth could work together and make a entire wikipedia page on this subject for everyone to read.


You obviously do not understand the "Serious Business" meme. The "Serious Business" meme is when people are argueing seriously over something that is not so serious. Now don't take that wrong, you can think of PR seriously if you want, but the whole discussion isn't really supposed to be serious, I mean if one person wants to think of something seriously go ahead, if another person doesn't, thats fine, but making long discussions about a simple response? I mean sure I can see why your posts are long, you want to tell others all the details, all the little missing elements, things others are doing wrong with PR, etc. but really theres only so much that needs to be said for a point to be put across.

It took me 2 minutes to make the picture, 3 minutes to find a good picture to use. But I must say you sure like to type alot, all of your posts are pretty lengthy. (Not meant to be a insult, just making a statement)

 

[Keith Justice]

Man, Dora... I'd be happy to let you know what I think, but the volumes you lay down are near exhausting. Between real work, work around the house and life it's hard to take the time, but I will give it a shot, hopefully tomorrow.

Now to attend to the pile of clothes I swear I just attended to yesterday... :disappoin

 

[WhiteHatDouche]

One of these days those, "_________ Serious Business" pictures will be funny.

Today is not that day.

 

[Keith Justice]

Keith, I can't help but think you're not parsing the argument you want to be making. You regard these shows as exercises in projecting yourself into a fictional universe? So in that regard, you really don't care about what the auspices of SPD are. You don't care about the storylines, or the character arcs, or anything of the sort. The series is entirely an extension of you... Playing with your toys as a kid, basically. It's role play.

Well, the thing is I'm speaking of one aspect and an important aspect of SPD and Mystic Force that I liked and thought were really well done. It creates a mythological world that adventure can take place in and you can almost tell that the adventure you're seeing isn't the only one happening or has ever happened. SPD's got bounty hunters, other Power Ranger squads, planets and Mystic Force has mystic fighters, heroes and other such being in its world.

DT... it snips out Sentai and pastes it into a high school and that's about it. Outside of tiny nods and that flashback episode you really don't get an overall feel of adventure and the fantasy world that PR takes place in.

All my favorite things do this. The best seasons of Power Rangers, Babylon 5, Farscape, Firefly, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, the D&D Cartoon.... they all build a world that your imagination can have fun in as well as follow a well told story in them.

And alas.... that's what I felt SPD lacked and I think Mystic Force had, but lately Power Rangers overall just can't hold my attention and with a limited amount of slots on my old VCR with which to tape stuff and the goddamn shifting of when PR episodes shows I just can't find the time to follow the shows. So I really can't speak for OO at all in terms of story. I know what I saw in the premiere and Kalish manages to do what I like he does very well again. Establish what really feels like a Power Ranger fantasy realm.

Ninja Storm showed hints of it. In the crossover I really felt there was a world where ninjas run through the streets and fought monsters, but in all the other episodes it just seems like they snipped basic ninja concept and pasted it onto kids without really making it seem like a world lived in by super ninjas.

Power Rangers at its best has both. Space was the first Power Ranger series I seen that really felt like an adventure world that given a spaceship I could run around in, visit these well imagined worlds and places and have a great time in. On top of it it had one of PR's greatest stories of Andros searching for his sister, finding her, fighting her, reuniting with a fallen ally, the death of Zordon and seeing all the Rangers grow together as a team.

Space and Lost Galaxy also pulled together the two elements of a well respected fantasy world and story.

When I see Doug do PR the overall story almost seems embarassed that it exists to the point where they feel PR is just so stupid why even try building a world to tell a story in? Doug PR doesn't seem to take the Sentai footage and create a world out of it. Just doesn't seem fit to bother or want to.... except for a few odd crossovers and specials here and there like Samurai Quest or Thunder Storm which had me going, "WHY can't you do it like this all the time!"

That's why I don't like Doug PR and while I can't say I love Kalish PR like I did Lynn PR... I still find that him taking Sentai and sitting down to establish a vital world for the story to be told in is preferable to Doug's technique.

See, for the first time I actually think I understand why character, storytelling, etc. don't mean anything to you. The universe is an extension of your own imagination, so you can project yourself into this universe as a superhero. Thus why DT doesn't work for you. You can't fantasize about being an ordinary high school student who saves the world and tries to juggle their lives around that. You have to fantasize about being lost a thousand years in the past and living in a clock tower with an owl.

Well, like I said before, character and storytelling means a HELL of a lot to me. It's just I really respect and appreciate a storyteller that takes the time to flesh and and develope a world to tell that story in so that I can combine the feel of projecting as well as following a well told tale.

DT didn't work for me because yah... I couldn't fantasize about being in a high school and fighting monsters, but I don't feel like he did it on the level that you see Buffy do it. It didn't feel like high schoolers in a world of monsters and super robots. It felt like a show that was embarassed of its high school world and "oh yeah.. we fight as Power Rangers too." It just didn't gel well to me as a good fantasy world that respected itself.

That is FASCINATING to me. You are, in effect, the thing most of the fandom has always wanted. A member of the target audience with communications skills solid enough to convey WHAT it is he gets out of the series as an extension of his own imagination. Which is not something the world has in abundance with eight-year-olds.

I wouldn't say I'm a part of the real target audience anymore, but yeah.... I've given some thought as to why I've continued to have a soft spot in my heart for the show as I've begun my 30's. It's just the same kind of love I have for anything that takes an imagination to create. From PR, to comic books, to cartoons, to video games, to even table top RPG's.

I think I'm phrasing this right, because if you're seriously going to claim OO makes sense as a story or a universe, when we've got three villain factions alternately behaving as though stopping one another is the most important thing possible and not making any effort to keep tabs on one another, I will scream at you -- there is no sense of a larger universe here.

I....... haven't really been watching OO, to tell you the truth. I just don't have time anymore. :disappoin Not to mention I've come to terms that Kalish doesn't itch the scratch I need hard enough. I need some connection to the old PR world to really get into it and yeah... these storys told really don't hold my attention. Might be because of matured tastes. Cuz from what I've seen, I can imagine 9 year old Keith Justice treating SPD, MF, and OO as his own personal Lord of the Rings. There's a lot to love for the target audience and I like the respect he gives the world of PR and what he conjures up from the Sentai footage without being embarassed of the material.

But if I ignore that you don't mean "world" as in "something which structurally makes sense as its own narrative entity" and take it rather as you meaning "environment I can pretend I'm living in"... Suddenly your likes and dislikes make INFINITELY more sense to me. You don't like MMPR because they have normal lives, and they have friends who are normal people. You want them to be Power Rangers all the time.

"Environemnti I can pretend to live in," is a good way of saying it. I didn't like MMPR (well, I liked the first season, but after Jason and company left and really when the stopped doing unmorphed fighting sequences I started hating the show...) because like I said above some of it felt like it was embarassed of itself. Having normal lives and being a superhero are fine. Time Force did that the best I thought. Jen dealing with being engaged, Wes dealing with his father, and Eric dealing with trying to build something for himself out of nothing were unforgettable. MMPR-Turbo, there real lives and dealings in it were flimsy at best and largely forgettable.

Am I misconstruing you here, Keith? Take no offense if I am. But if this is close to the mark... My god, no wonder your tastes run so counter to most of the fandom. You aren't basing your criticisms on narrative or logical criteria. You base them on roleplay. In which case, my god -- I literally cannot debate anything with you. A good portion of the fandom cannot. We lack the software to understand you as much as you us. Relative "good" and "bad" do not exist. Debate doesn't exist. It's all just gut first-impressions.

Close.... roleplay is one of my criteria and a big one, cuz if you don't have a good world to play in.. a good and solid stage for the play... then the rest of the story just doesn't have solid ground to really engross you in.

The debate can certainly be there. It's just I guess I have something extra that plays an important part in my final impression.

... I can honestly say I've never considered a person might have a thought process like that. It's like when I finally understood how George Rodd perceives Ranger powers to "work," as frequencies of light. That's so counter to how I'm wired to think, I am in no way designed to refute or debate that.

Thank you. I'd always tried to figure out why I couldn't understand you (or why universe-destroying lapses in logic don't seem to "destroy a world" to you), and now I think I can appreciate why I was unable to.

Sorry to burst the above bubble, cuz that up there would be incorrect. But hopefully the rest of what I've said clears things up.

****! Okay.... pile of laundry is still there........ :redface2:

 

[Keith Justice]

One of these days those, "_________ Serious Business" pictures will be funny.

Today is not that day.

I think it is very funny. :anime:

 

[Keith Justice]

I'm not following you here. You think holographic ninja academies are gritty realism? You think a giant head who lives in a tube is normal? The two most brilliant lines in the history of this franchise for me are ones which underscore how utterly implausible PR is: Rose's line about having a degree in alien mythology, and Devin's reassuring comment that a meteor might have "just been a low-flying UFO."

Slow down there, Turbo. I think you're mixing up realised and "realistic." I got **** and no desire for Power Rangers to be realistic. I like it to be a physical representation of what my friends and I used to do as kids with our plastic swords and guns as we too could breath in space and kick monsters through brick walls.

Lines which completely underscore what a COMPLETELY ludicrous universe this must be. SANTA CLAUS is a real person in the PR universe. A PUBLIC FIGURE. Billy has invented a flying car and no one even gives the thing a second look as it goes tearing out of his garage. PR is the one show where I actually suspect Bigfoot is a public figure. There are KNOWN INDIGIOUS LIFEFORMS ON THE MOON. Bats and wolves.

While I respect such things in the PR universe and am more than fine and dandy with people like it it, it's not the kinda stuff I like. Things like those just seem to say, "This show is stupid! We don't even take it seriously!" Which, I don't want them approaching it like it was Band of Brothers or anything, but moments of Leo watching his brother Mike fall to his doom or Wes and Eric putting aside their differences to fight for the world show that those writers and producers care about taking absurd footage and making a real adventure out of it.

More later.... the urge to keep talking is a powerful one. :sweat: