MegaRyu124x
Member
Ah, y3k. That boy makes you think.
I posted my reply in the thread. Just read it, I'm too tired to post it here.
I posted my reply in the thread. Just read it, I'm too tired to post it here.
Y3K's Very Interesting Essay About SPD
- Thread starter The 2nd Evil
- Start date
I'm not following you here. You think holographic ninja academies are gritty realism? You think a giant head who lives in a tube is normal? The two most brilliant lines in the history of this franchise for me are ones which underscore how utterly implausible PR is: Rose's line about having a degree in alien mythology, and Devin's reassuring comment that a meteor might have "just been a low-flying UFO."
Lines which completely underscore what a COMPLETELY ludicrous universe this must be. SANTA CLAUS is a real person in the PR universe. A PUBLIC FIGURE. Billy has invented a flying car and no one even gives the thing a second look as it goes tearing out of his garage. PR is the one show where I actually suspect Bigfoot is a public figure. There are KNOWN INDIGIOUS LIFEFORMS ON THE MOON. Bats and wolves.
A season like Time Force might have gone to greater lengths to SHOW how distinct its mythology was, but... Look at MMPR and tell me that's not by far the single most surreal television series of the nineties. The world it implies exists is remarkably brilliant in its stupidity. Just because we see them doing mundane activities doesn't mean that surreal universe doesn't exist. What it does mean is that...
Sentai is concept-driven. This is to their advantage, because Sentai is not a series. Sentai is a franchise, a successive series of unrelated programs sharing a theme. PR's greatest strength is that it is one universe. Every season is in the same world as another. Just because we might happen to get a relatively mundane season does not mean that the universe has markedly gotten less weird. I admire PR for easily being the most ranged television series on the air.
It really stresses something that the lowest-rated seasons have largely been the "fantastical world" years. I thought a solid third of Lightspeed was amazing PR. I also think there is absolutely nothing in Lightspeed any kid could identify with. Who wants to be an emergency response worker who fights demons and lives in a military compound?
As Judd, Amit, and Doug all said -- PR's core DNA is "high school kids who save the world and try and keep their grades up." Audience identification. The Rangers are the older siblings that the kids want to have. Adult enough to be admired, but not so adult they can't be identified with, or lack "school problems" kids can relate to. While PR CAN do other things (and I'd argue it should, lest it get stagnant like Zeo), it should always go back to that original concept now and then.
Chip quit PR because he was sick and tired of spending years writing Sentai hack after Sentai hack. Concept driven season after concept driven season. He wanted to write Mad Mike baking people inside pizzas while the villains argue over who has to pick up dinner this week. Sentai doesn't have an emotional heart beyond "henshin heroes who save the world." That's what the franchise is about. It's someone who forgets what the heart of PR is (as Jonathan Tzachor did) who mistakes Sentai and PR for one another.
... Wow, that's shitty. I mean, no offense, we all want what we want, but purely speaking as a writer? That's ****. A RESURRECTED GOLDAR? You want to... You do realize this is the shitty fanboyism that most fans of Kalish PR deride of Doug, right? A character with no prior investment in this season, suddenly working for another villain...
You know, I wanted Zeltrax to be a resurrected Venjix. Up to Golden Boy, there was genuinely some grist for that theory to be valid. Trouble is, that doesn't make SENSE. Suddenly the anti-organic robot fanatic is working for the dinosaur man? Suddenly the most loyal soldier of Zedd's court is working for someone with completely contrary motives to those of his fallen master? Goldar ain't gonna toady for some other guy simply because he wants to kill the Black Ranger.
Especially when there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR GOLDAR TO ASSOCIATE WORKING FOR MESOGOG WITH GETTING REVENGE ON TOMMY. As far as Mercer knew, Tommy had died when that island went up. The government sealed his records (which makes sense, considering he's running black ops for NASADA circa FR). Until he moved to Reefside, Tommy had no reason to attract anyone's attention.
You're blaming a season for the fact that it didn't do exactly the storylines you wanted. And it's FINE to dislike shows for not doing what you like. But to call them ****? Keith, do your understand one of the inherent conceits of storytelling is that you don't introduce an unrelated element to solve an internal problem?
Case in point: A perfectly sensible conclusion for the Pagh'wraith storyline could have been for the Q Continuum to swoop down and contain them, allowing the Prophets time to spring their trap in the Fire Caves. It would violate NOTHING internal to this universe. In fact, that would be excellent continuity. The problem is that the Q are an element outside the scope of DS9. Save for Q's one appearance, the species is a nonissue. It's the absolute worst kind of storytelling.
If you introduce a gun in act one of a play, you have to fire it by act three. Similarly, if you suddenly decide there is a gun in the dresser at the height of the story's climax when there was no evidence of it existing prior, that is horrible storytelling. We can consider PR to be one series all we like, but it really isn't. You can't devote an episode to tying off storylines from past seasons without some precedent for invoking them.
(This is why FR never bothers explaining how Jason and TJ had active morphers again -- Cole is the audience identification character, and from Cole's vantage there is NO REASON to question how or why other Rangers have their powers. Fans want PR to be written their way, for them. That's ****. It's the same reason Doug DIDN'T want to touch on Forever Red within the scope of Legacy of Power; then he's slaved to tying off someone else's storylines with no incentive for his own)
People fail to understand the Smitty storyline, which amuses me. I KNOW it amused Doug. Zeltrax wasn't a red-herring for a past character from Power Rangers, he was a red-herring for MERCER with the children. The same episode which reveals Tommy's old colleague is back in town is the episode where Zeltrax first mentions his revenge. The Mercer = Mesogog press release was known to the fandom, NOT to the target audience. Watch those episodes. It's clear they're going for a swerve on Mercer/Zeltrax.
Oh, the storytelling on Smitty's origin itself is atrocious, but Ann Austen is also one of the worst writers in the history of the franchise. I ain't defending her handling of it. Bully for Ethan was a craptastic episode. Though DT was the last season PR did a-and-b-plots counter to one another which thematically wove together. MMPR did that often.
You're welcome to dislike whatever you want internal to PR, but your explanations for why you dislike them are not... Logically consistent to one another. That's part of why I think the whole "a world I can project myself into" explanation made such sense for you. The words you use to explain why you enjoy things seem to be at odds to one another.
Your expectations for the old continuity DT delivered are no reason to condemn the season. You talk about how Space got continuity so right -- Always a Chance isn't an Adam episode. It's a Carlos episode. It underscores Carlos' growth, and the relationship he and Adam had when Carlos first debuted. The Delta Discovery is not a Phantom Ranger episode. True Blue to the Rescue IS a Justin episode -- about what happens to a team member when he's been left behind. We get a full explanation of who these people are and how they relate to one another.
Similarly, Countdown to Destruction is not a crossover with past seasons. The cameos from past characters are effectively irrelevant, purely to underscore that no backup is possible. The Space Rangers resolve this conflict themselves. The other heroes are ineffectual in all senses of the word. If the Aquitian Rangers swooped in and saved the day, it would be the worst finale in PR history.
Everybody remembers Mondo's Last Stand as having Rocky explicitly mention that he was Jason's replacement as Red Ranger. He doesn't. Though that's the clear underscore and emotional heart of the episode, it's about someone who feels as though he's being replaced by someone very similar to himself. Someone he himself replaced once. It's an episode about Rocky trying to find his own identity.
Do you understand the DIFFERENCE between what you are suggesting and what the things you say you've enjoyed about PR's old continuity are?
But SPD doesn't have that. You've never explained where you're construing the idea it does have that.
Structurally speaking, SPD does not make sense. At all. We have no idea what the auspices of the agency are, what their jurisdiction or purview is, how they arrived on Earth, what the chronology of their ascension throughout the galaxy is, why Cruger was adamant they aren't police when there's giant "POLICE" stamped on everything (which fits nicely into Tom's theory they are a governing body unto themselves)...
In Sam's timeline, Gruumm takes over the planet. In those ensuing years, Omni never emerges. A-Squad never return to Earth to help secure the planet. Broodwing never revolts. Sam should frankly be the best source of intel they have on the future. Instead, Sam is pretty much an elaborate prop. He is good for absolutely nothing. Those elements of SPD which are original are brushed aside for those elements which are derived from Dekaranger.
My god, the EPISODE AFTER THE BATTLIZER DEBUTS is dedicated to "well, Battlizer's useless. Time to debut the super special awesome SWAT modes!" Because the Battlizer is American, and **** that ****. SPD has replacement morphers ready and waiting whenever they're needed. Those Judgment Scanners have internalized power sources. They are not magical, or bonded to their hosts.
In a world this short-shrifted of Rangers, when there's SECONDARY MORPHERS ready and waiting... You want to tell me nobody deputized C-Squad? My god, SPD High Command has DISPOSABLE MORPHERS ready for whenever they're needed. And Birdie Fowler didn't think to take a set of those with him when he led the SPD commanders to Earth? For that matter, where WAS the rest of SPD? If they're this vast organization spanning the galaxy, why aren't all of their resources committed to stopping Gruumm -- allegedly the sole remaining evil superpower left?
This stuff is not beyond the scope of the series (like if Hayley knew Smitty, considering she DID seem to know Mercer). These are all issues raised and discarded internal to SPD. We don't know when SPD first established its presence on Earth, considering they HAVE to have been there purely for R&D since Lightspeed era. We don't know where SPD currently is in the PR universe. We are never, ever, EVER going to get an answer as to how Commander Tate acquired a Morpher which was DNA-locked to its original owners. Which was a significant plotline throughout Time Force.
This isn't just an example in using continuity willy-nilly. This is an example in piss-poor storytelling and a complete lack of planning.
Where's the character growth? Jack and Sky's friendship fluctuates so rapidly from close friendship to antagonism... Jack himself goes from carelessly irresponsible to a hardass and back again. Sky goes from a joyless automaton to a loyal friend and back. Storylines like SWAT, contingent on the team falling apart and losing cohesion, come from out of nowhere.
I have a theory on why Ninja Storm isn't regarded as funny. It's not that NS is unfunny -- it's that NS is making so many jokes, trying so hard to be light and likable, that it starts pissing people off for trying too hard. Every Ranger is the brunt of a joke, rather than someone we can laugh along with. PR needs Bulk and Skull to have people they can smash pies in the face of. When you do that to Rangers, we lose our RESPECT for them. And I give them credit -- DT, SPD, MF, and OO all have great comic relief. PR has never committed that cardinal sin again.
Similarly, SPD's characterization is so totally unhinged on anything which has occurred prior to itself... There's no sense of growth, development, or follow-through. These are whiny, petulant, selfish people. My god, look at Perspective. LOOK at it. We're to believe these trained professionals each rewrote a conflict to make themselves look better -- all the while neglecting that the MYSTERIOUS ALIEN PRESENCE they've seen stalking them around the base actually solved the case.
... Do you realize how retarded that is? These are LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS? DETECTIVES? A little resume padding is fine, but... Who thought they'd get away with, particularly one after another in succession like this? Ignoring what real Rangers would do, anyone with half a brain would have gone to Cruger and said "there's something we need to talk to you about, sir." What if Sam had been another criminal? Or a monster of Mora's who might pose a threat to them? Or, god forbid, a mysterious new hero? These are TERRAN HUMANS, with little sense of aliens besides refugees living on-world.
So please, Keith. How does this show make sense to you? When it is a narrative mess, when it introduces plot elements and FUNDAMENTAL UNIVERSE CONSTRUCTION problems which are never addressed or resolved. You're welcome to like it -- my personal favorite season is season two, for instance, which is crap, and I will be the first to tell you why it is crap -- but how is it you honestly believe this is brilliant storytelling, par excellence?
No offense, but in the entirety of your time in this fandom I can honestly never recall you speaking well of storylines, deftly written storytelling, characterization or character arcs... Just discussing at length how PR's action gives you a "buzz" nothing else does. I have truly never seen you engage in discussion or debate on the universe, or the underlying themes of PR, just say what you like or hate.
There's nothing WRONG with being an adrenaline junkie, Keith. There's nothing wrong with only liking things for superficial reasons. It doesn't say you aren't smart. I like lots of things I think are brainless entertainment, and I hope I'm reasonably intelligent.
* looks at post *
I guess that's what always stuck in my craw about Bruce. I mean, you talk to him. You're one of the few people he does maintain regular correspondence with. Has he ever expressed genuine enthusiasm for the series, for the franchise?
He's contradicted himself incessantly on what episodes he's seen (he claimed to have watched Space and LG to Mo two years ago, a random assortment of NS at the Q&A, and episodes recommended by the fans on Rangerboard last year). He confuses PR and Sentai (discussing PR's "thirty year history"), and has been adamant on more than one occasion PR is nothing but adapted Sentai.
How... How does that not offend you? Or at least insult on you some basic level as a fan? I truly don't know. I've never found a fan of the recent seasons who can explain this to me. The Transformers fandom (rightly) pilloried Bob Skir and Marty Isenberg for not watching a single episode of TF prior to working on Beast Machines. You want to tell me Doug wasn't a good writer for failing to provide you with senseless continuity, but you want me to accept SPD was brilliant for trampling all over past continuity?
See, I agree with you on this. Too much leeway is terrifying. You need to approach PR with either an objective eye as to how you will be adapting this season with an eye towards using the Sentai story, or how you can appropriate the footage from the Sentai for your own storytelling purposes.
Writers call that "the blank page," and it's horrifying. If you can do anything, with absolutely no conditions or terms on that... How can you do anything at all? Most of the greatest works of the Renaissance was created on commission. I think people forget that.
There's something commendable about PRiS. Chip looked at Megaranger, which was basically handing him an MMPR-stylized Sentai series to adapt with little effort (including a sixth member with waning powers), and DISCARDED that. He slaved everything to the bare minimal amount of footage they had in Mega which could be repurposed for "Power Rangers series in outer space."
Inversely, you want to beat people half to death for thinking you could do the same to GINGAMAN and keep most of the mysticism and animal totems intact. The reason MMPR worked as well as it did was that it knew exactly what it was about, and discarded every bit of the source shows which did not accommodate that. It didn't matter if the US footage looked comparably terrible, they still shot it, and it worked.
I FIRMLY agree with this. PR has such a brief turnaround time now that it's just easier to translate the Sentai and spackle new storylines and explanations on top of that. I honestly wish PR could take a really lengthy hiatus in-season one year, as shows like Lost have done, to give Sentai more lead over them. As it is, PR doesn't really seem to know what it's doing anymore.
Similarly, while the annual Toei/Ranger production crew gatherings are intended to get the US team up to speed on what the next Sentai will be about... I think we do need to have PR folks telling the Sentai people what they want to do in two years' time. The communication between the shows is so incredibly one-way, considering that PR is Toei's show every bit as much as it is Disney's.
JustAnotherBlueRanger
Member
I wouldn't say it worked that well. Sometimes it worked like with Space, sometimes it didn't work like with Lost Galaxy (Stealing beauty?). Sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't.
Dino Thunder would be an excellent example of it not working. Not only did Doug make some fundamental mistakes during the series creation, he later compounded them during the filming and completion of the series. Case in point, bringing Tommy back. Okay, he's back but for other reasons, he won't be around the entire season and aside from a reused promo photo, we won't ever see mention of his epic past nor will the circumstances surrounding his return be explained that well.
Bringing back a former ranger, even one of the original six, was a good idea in and of itself. How he or she was brought back and the manner in which they returned turned out to be a series of very questionable and outright bad decisions made by the PTB.
I loved Ninja Storm, I think its one of the best PR series we've ever gotten and its almost if not the ideal introduction season to show people to get them to become fans. I say this because I don't want people thinking I hate or am universally critical of Doug, I'm just saying what my opinion of his work is.
It appears that based off of Kalish's word that Disney now has a mandated format in mind for PR and they want it to be as close to the Sentai as possible. Whether or not Disney came up with that decision completely on their own or whether or not Toei inserted that clause into their agreement is a very interesting question that I have yet to see any answer for.
PR knows what its doing, it's doing what it's been told to do. The question I raised is, who told it to do that, Was it Disney or was it Toei? Toei does film in NZ more often now, so it would seem they should logically be taking more of an interest in PR. But on the other hand, they seem content to let BoA give us substandard toys compared to their Japanese counterparts which isn't a unique setup.
Personally I think Super Sentai is a lot worse shape then PR is at present. Toei has been doing this for 30+ years which is not completley a good thing. Yes they have this process and production down almost a science but they're not really developing anything 'new' or interesting ideals and stories. And I would imagine they're much more likely to be set in their ways and beliefs vs what we've seen with Disney changing to suit the times and adapting as needed.
I think there needs to be a member of the PR creative and production staff on set with Toei in Japan, assisting in the creative process, at least one. Not just because it will make the translation easier for PR but because there would be a natural feedback of this individual's ideas and way of thinking that probably would really help Toei out. And Toei needs to do this with PR as well. Problem is, I don't see either side be willing to do it. Toei is unlikely to reach out to Disney nor are they likely willing to accept outside input into their creative process.
I truly wish it would. The last few years...I can almost mark where PR falls apart. The beginning of the season is generally the best part in recent seasons (Dino Thunder on...I haven't seen NS all the way through to comment, nor OO. So...DT, SPD, and MF). The premiers are all or mostly original, and usually start off quite epic. The early episodes gel fairly well. The first two stand-alones for SPD balance each other. Jack's focuser leads into Sky's focuser, and Sky's episode REFERENCES Jack's. That's fucking awesome. MF's first stand alone deals with the rangers learning to deal with their new environment, with humorous consequences (Heroes for Hire is brilliant). DT's first stand alone is admittedly bad, but just after that we get the introduction of a new ranger and Tommy's past.
Then the series begins doing some Sentai things. Not bad, but usually fairly decent, in ADDITION to the original plots they've established. The series settles into the first third dynamic, which ends with the first major shakeup event for the season.
White Thunder and Shadow are high points of their respective seasons. So is the first part of Gatekeeper (heck, I think it is *the* best MF episode). But already, you can see the Sentai creeping in. Shadow is filled with Sentai. Gatekeeper 2 *is* Sentai.
Everything after is...not as good. Recognition? Yeah, excellent episode. Samurai? Not so much. The later Evil White Ranger episodes in DT tend to get slightly monotonous. MF just gives up completely when Daggeron enters the scene. The stories begin to lag. We hear Cruger's wife is kidnapped in Shadow...and that's the last we hear of it until near the end of the season.
I firmly mark the downfall of the PR season to be around the intro of the 6th ranger introduction. Messenger is horrendous. So is Daggeron's intro. DT visibly staggers when Triassic is debuted (I actually turned on DT after "A Star is Torn". I hate that episode).
That is usually the halfway or 2/3ds mark of the season. That's when everything comes crashing down. The careful tower of cards that's been steadily been building since the first episode collapses under its own weight. PR starts doing Sentai heavy episodes, and the original plots suffer. Things just...don't work out.
Doug was planning on using Devin as the Triassic ranger, before he realized what it really was, wasn't he? The fact that PR *doesn't* know what it's counterpart is planning for the end hurts it immensely. PR has to constantly gamble with its own fate. "Are we pacing this right? What if footage doesn't allow us to finish this story? Should we focus on Sentai footage earlier in the season, or later on? Should we dare to alter this subplot to fit our needs? What could the Sentai finale possibly be like?"
The fact that PR is like, only ten episodes behind what it's being given footage for, I think, damages it greatly. I don't think it's healthy, not one bit. **** Disney, **** Doug, **** Bruce, **** the budget, **** continuity. I personally think PR's greatest weakness is that it simply cannot plan its own series without having to second guess itself ten episodes later.
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JustAnotherBlueRanger
Member
I believe **** Toei belongs in there somewhere as well since they're at least partly to blame with what is going on.
Yeah, that's my mistake. Toei should be given a big "**** you" as well. They know *damn* well that they're planning.
Black Ranger RX
I don't have low self esteem.
Wow, and I haven't even joined this board in the first place. :rolleyes2:
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