Villain presence: how much and why?

[lazycoconut]

If villains are interesting, then even heroes can be a little bit on the simple side

In what way?

What's the point of having any heroes at all if they have no struggles or trials to over come. I mean LC you make it sounds as though Heroes can have a show on their own with nothing at all else to go with them bad guy wise. I mean how fun would it be with a Super Sentai team that did nothing but HENSHIN.. Now what.. OHHHHHH lets watch tv. The end.:anime:

If you can have good heroes AND good villains, great. But if a show is only going to do one or the other well, I'd pick the hero/es, just because it's his/their story. I would also go for quality over quantity here, one or two strong villains are better than a whole bunch of poorly written ones. That's one reason I'm enjoying Go-Busters this year, Enter is fun and manages to be menacing even though there's no army of rubber-suited bad guys

 

[Beast King]

More Villains >>> more heroes

For one simple reason, The villains bring out that side that you don't see in the heroes being the scheming evil bad guy persona, Their stories are always more fun to watch because they aren't busy worrying about why Yoko is pissed off, Instead they are busy plotting, becoming stronger, and kicking ass, I found myself more driven to watch a show that had good villains than good heroes.

 

[lazycoconut]

It kind of annoys me that people always seem to find the villains more important and likeable than the heroes. They ARE an important part of the shows, but the whole idea is to see good defeat evil, not the reverse. It's possible to write good villains without encouraging the audience to root for them - most of the Ultraman series I've seen do this well

I agree that more Busters villains would be great. Enter would NOT like having another bad guy in his way, he'd have to step up his game

 

[Seigi]

Of course a villain is important, but never as important as the hero.

Still though, you get the best shows with the best villains, since the stronger the villain, the better the challenge, and the greater the obstacle the hero overcomes.

 

[Frumix]

In what way?

I suppose Dairanger is a good example.
The team is rather one-dimensional and static, it's their personal challenges and quirky rivals that make them interesting.

 

[Clocktower]

I think it depends on the show. I like villains to be important and actually threatening, but I never really felt like Gokaiger had a problem, even though the villains there were largely incompetent. Mainly because the enjoyment of that show came from the protagonists and their abilities, rather than the actual story.

I also really liked Rio and Mele, they seemed like a real evil force that the protagonists were always struggling to counter. It meant there was less time for development of the main team members, but it made for a much more interesting story than other shows have. Boukenger and Dairangers focus on the bad guys also really helped those shows, in my opinion.

 

[Black Fang]

It kind of annoys me that people always seem to find the villains more important and likeable than the heroes. They ARE an important part of the shows, but the whole idea is to see good defeat evil, not the reverse. It's possible to write good villains without encouraging the audience to root for them - most of the Ultraman series I've seen do this well

I think this connects with the general lack of "heroic feel" a lot of recent Toei shows have. There is too much focus on making an elaborate plot and dynamic characters (even if it ends up failing at either) and not enough on simple acts of saving people and doing good deeds. Fans on the boards always talk about plot points and whether or not a character is developed enough, not whether or not he's actually heroic.

The post-Decade Riders have rectified this to an extent, but I think Kuuga through Ryuki were the best at emphasizing heroism. When people were hurt or killed, you were made to care and wanted the Rider to come save the day before any more bad stuff happened. Did anyone care about the Fangire victims?

 

[The 2nd Evil]

I haven't yet heard of or seen a tokusatsu where the bad guys actually won (although it would be an interesting concept.)

I think Power Rangers Turbo is the closest we're ever going to come to that, and that only worked because it lead directly into the next season.

 

[lazycoconut]

I think Power Rangers Turbo is the closest we're ever going to come to that, and that only worked because it lead directly into the next season.

Maybe Faiz sort-of counts, because

Spoiler

the Orphenoch King is shown to still be alive at the end, it could all start up again at any time, and Takumi probably still has a shortened lifespan

But it's still not a straight example.

I suppose Dairanger is a good example.
The team is rather one-dimensional and static, it's their personal challenges and quirky rivals that make them interesting.

That's very true, I love the Dairangers, but without the supporting cast the show would have had a lot less impact

I think this connects with the general lack of "heroic feel" a lot of recent Toei shows have. There is too much focus on making an elaborate plot and dynamic characters (even if it ends up failing at either) and not enough on simple acts of saving people and doing good deeds. Fans on the boards always talk about plot points and whether or not a character is developed enough, not whether or not he's actually heroic.

The post-Decade Riders have rectified this to an extent, but I think Kuuga through Ryuki were the best at emphasizing heroism. When people were hurt or killed, you were made to care and wanted the Rider to come save the day before any more bad stuff happened. Did anyone care about the Fangire victims?

I doubt it :/ I can agree with you on these points

 

[Black Fang]

And about villains winning:

I haven't yet heard of or seen a tokusatsu where the bad guys actually won (although it would be an interesting concept.)

I think Power Rangers Turbo is the closest we're ever going to come to that, and that only worked because it lead directly into the next season.

It happened in Ohranger too, at least until the very end. And from what I've seen posted online, the original Black manga ends with Kotaro becoming the Century King and Gorgom taking over the world.