So I'm watching Liveman, and I'm wondering...

[Sage Shinigami]

I'd like to preface any further arguments with by saying I only watch subs. So if its out there and its raw, then I haven't seen it. If its out there and subbed and in my post it seems like I haven't seen it from my words, point me to it and I'll watch for the sake of discussion. I don't want to be misinformed, but I'm also not ruining my first time watching a series just to win some forum argument. That all said...

If you want to see heroes develop, then wouldn't Liveman be the perfect show for you? They're completely raw material when they start, but as they progress they gain experience and technique. How are the Liveman any less committed to their job than any other team? Just because they don't win with ease every single time? The fact that they keep going on despite their setbacks is something you should be admiring, not condemning.

I'm not finished with the series, or even with what's subbed. This is my opinion as it develops. So make no mistake--if/when they improve, I'll be congratulating them. I'm just irritated right now because their actions are that of people who should be better than they are right now.

If they had been like the Magiranger? Just randomly given magic wands and told to fight? I would've thought, "Its probably going to go bad for you." And if it did, so be it.

But they had their changers. No clue how long, but long enough to be confident to just, wear them in everyday life, in case some stuff went down. That says they should've completed basic testing and training to know they wouldn't randomly fizzle out mid-battle.

In episode three you see them patrolling when they run upon the monster, so it isn't like they're taking a free-wheeling, "Ah, we'll get 'em when we get 'em" approach--they're serious. And yet, upon FINDING said monster...it went pretty bad for them.

FlashNeko mentioned the key point: You can't continuously show the villains as these really hardcore, strong guys...'cause at what point to they go from threats, to idiots for not killing the heroes?

This is why I disagree with Scissors. No one's saying they should be excellent at fighting (though I'll confess to loving when they are), but there's something to be said to being at least having the skills to bring down grunts.

BTW...yeah, they were mechanical grunts. So were the ones in Ohranger. Who, by the way, from the first episode, did a much better job of showing how threatening this alien army was. OhRed solos the force sent after the team, but he wasn't all Takeru with it either. I like that.

 

[kyoot]

Just take a look at kuuga, he was like getting smacked by the gronggi most of the time on the earlier episodes until he develops his kick and other forms to adapt, now kuuga is up there with the greats.

 

[Sage Shinigami]

Just take a look at kuuga, he was like getting smacked by the gronggi most of the time on the earlier episodes until he develops his kick and other forms to adapt, now kuuga is up there with the greats.

You go into Kuuga, or at least I did, with the understanding that his first form (the one you see him battling in 1 in) isn't meant to fight in. In fact later its the one after which the belt can't be used for two hours if he gets pushed to it.

Plus, again, dude was new. These guys...shouldn't have been new, if they were.

 

[kyoot]

You go into Kuuga, or at least I did, with the understanding that his first form (the one you see him battling in 1 in) isn't meant to fight in. In fact later its the one after which the belt can't be used for two hours if he gets pushed to it.

We also see him get beaten in his mighty form, titan form, amazing mighty form heck even ultimate form had a hard time against Daguva and lastly if you would include RU Kuuga from dcd who didnt even land a single punch on Shadowmoon. But with everything said our heroesâ„¢ rise to the occasion and win because thats the message they are trying to convey that no matter how hard the challenges maybe they should persevere and MUST win because if they dont who else would?

 

[Sage Shinigami]

We also see him get beaten in his mighty form, titan form, amazing mighty form heck even ultimate form had a hard time against Daguva and lastly if you would include RU Kuuga from dcd who didnt even land a single punch on Shadowmoon. But with everything said our heroesâ„¢ rise to the occasion and win because thats the message they are trying to convey that no matter how hard the challenges maybe they should persevere and MUST win because if they dont who else would?

...Rising Ultimate Kuuga couldn't hit Shadowmoon?

....I got something to say about that but I'd get attacked for blasphemy or something when I started talking about Showa Era Riders.

And you're on a different subject than I am. There's a difference between losing key fights in which a new opponent appears and you need a Form Change, or a Power-Up, and being an experienced fighter challenging some random grunts.

No one in Toku gets away with effortlessly winning EVERY battle, in so far as I've seen. (The offenders are Kabuto, Shinkenger, and I think Boukenger. I'm current on Shinken, seen Kabuto 40, and lack on Boukenger--maybe they never get challenged?)

That's different from spending your entire opening losing.

 

[Black Fang]

I'm not finished with the series, or even with what's subbed. This is my opinion as it develops. So make no mistake--if/when they improve, I'll be congratulating them. I'm just irritated right now because their actions are that of people who should be better than they are right now.

I think you're just missing the overall point the show is trying to make, like what FlashNeko is saying.

If they had been like the Magiranger? Just randomly given magic wands and told to fight? I would've thought, "Its probably going to go bad for you." And if it did, so be it.

But they had their changers. No clue how long, but long enough to be confident to just, wear them in everyday life, in case some stuff went down. That says they should've completed basic testing and training to know they wouldn't randomly fizzle out mid-battle.

That could either be:

1) A poorly filmed scene.

2) They just weren't prepared for just what Volt is capable of. You can train all you want, but if you don't know your enemy it's not going to be that big a help. An entire army of combat veterans could still be helpless against an alien invasion. This isn't much different.

 

[Sage Shinigami]

I think you're just missing the overall point the show is trying to make, like what FlashNeko is saying.

What point? Thus far the villains have been about eugenics, while the heroes have been defending the worth of the entire human race...so I would guess its far more inspiring if they actually could do that.

That could either be:

1) A poorly filmed scene.

2) They just weren't prepared for just what Volt is capable of. You can train all you want, but if you don't know your enemy it's not going to be that big a help. An entire army of combat veterans could still be helpless against an alien invasion. This isn't much different.

Funny you should mention that....

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6HBs5Qj_Qk[/ame]

Let's see....

Army of combat veterans. Check.

Showing the enemies are a true threat? Big check.

Heroes struggling with the battle? Yep.

The powers being relatively new? Correct again.

Does Ohranger not do all the stuff you're talking about, without making you wonder why the villains haven't killed the heroes? Oh is there something I'm missing?

Also. You mentioned heroes developing...and, that was my question. WHEN does that start to happen? One of my favorite Riders had to slowly grow (Kenzaki), and the show was better for it--but I just don't want this to be a Shinji (Ryuki) situation where the guy fights in nearly every episode and never grows any more skilled.

 

[Red Sky Ranger]

I like Liveman. It's one of my favorite Sentai series and the first one I've watched from start to finish. Indeed, one of the true classic Sentai in its prime.

The heroes are fighting the good fight and the villains actually pose a threat to the heroes and humanity, unlike a certain Sentai we all love to hate and make fun of.

Engine Sentai Go-onger, of course.

 

[Black Fang]

What point? Thus far the villains have been about eugenics, while the heroes have been defending the worth of the entire human race...so I would guess its far more inspiring if they actually could do that.

Which they're making an effort to do? I really don't see what your grudge is here. It's not as though they're whining about how pitiful they are or wanting to quit just because of a few losses. Pardon me for saying this, but this is one of the more inane criticisms of a superhero show I've read in my estimation.

Funny you should mention that....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6HBs5Qj_Qk

Let's see....

Army of combat veterans. Check.

Showing the enemies are a true threat? Big check.

Heroes struggling with the battle? Yep.

The powers being relatively new? Correct again.

Does Ohranger not do all the stuff you're talking about, without making you wonder why the villains haven't killed the heroes? Oh is there something I'm missing?

I'm not understanding your point here.

Also. You mentioned heroes developing...and, that was my question. WHEN does that start to happen? One of my favorite Riders had to slowly grow (Kenzaki), and the show was better for it--but I just don't want this to be a Shinji (Ryuki) situation where the guy fights in nearly every episode and never grows any more skilled.

How did Shinji not get more skilled? You must mean Ryotaro. I can't blame you for the confusion, both shows did have the same writer >.> ....

 

[Sage Shinigami]

Which they're making an effort to do? I really don't see what your grudge is here. It's not as though they're whining about how pitiful they are or wanting to quit just because of a few losses. Pardon me for saying this, but this is one of the more inane criticisms of a superhero show I've read in my estimation.

I don't give you an A For Effort when it comes to being a superhero. F that. A rough fight you eventually win is one thing...a fight in which you actually lose is another. People's lives are on the line. It may be interesting to you to see a hero lose a few fights. To me, it takes me out of the story. Why is that a problem for you?

...Inane? Okay, sure. That's fine. Your opinion. My opinion is that, this is a Toku series--I'm not ONLY watching for the story, I'm watching for the fight scenes (otherwise I'd quit Toku and stick to anime with the stock footage) and I like for my heroes to win. I'm not sure what your problem is with that, but fine.

I'm not understanding your point here.

...What, really? People (including yourself) have offered all sorts of varying reasons why it made sense for the Liveman to get knocked around. I'm saying Ohranger does a better job with all those reasons.

[/quote]
How did Shinji not get more skilled? You must mean Ryotaro. I can't blame you for the confusion, both shows did have the same writer >.> ....[/QUOTE]

He was still getting smacked around by the same guys in episode 40 he was in episode 20 (sorta, they were dropping like flies). I could understand him not wanting to kill...that's not the same as simply decisively disarming and defeating your opponent.

There was no improvement in his fighting abilities.

Which, thankfully, is a worry I'm having less with Liveman now that I've made it into episode 4. Megumi was actually portrayed as a near-equal to Mazenda, which I was hoping for from the beginning but its still early, so cool.

Also LiveRobo is great. Sentai had gone through several mecha at this point and most of them looked pretty crappy (and, now we're back to that again...*sighs*), so its nice to have one that looks solidly impressive.

I'll likely check out five to see if their skills have leveled out soon.