Kamen Rider Fourze Rumor/Picture Thread Part 2

[Black Fang]

The problem here is that Shinji's words seemed to be backed up by the movie's events that followed. Femme was shown to be utterly incompetent in combat every time she engaged the other Riders.

She was incompetent in the battle where Kanzaki played the church organ? She injures Kitaoka at one point (either here or another scene, I can't recall which), so it's not as though she was just kicked around.

But besides that, so what if Shinji was "proven" right? Miho entered the Game with the same kind of desires as the men, so what really differentiates her from the rest beyond sex? What's wrong with Shinji thinking that anyway? No one condemns him or Ren for telling that kid that he shouldn't be a part of this. Though I suppose that's ok because it was a boy.

Maybe Shinji just didn't like the idea of a young girl involved in such a horrendous thing, much less anyone else? It's not as though he cheered the idea of the men being involved, so you can't pin it on "Oh he didn't mind men being Riders". Why is that so awful?

Asakura grabbed her by the neck even after he lost his deck and she just stood there unable to get out. It seemed like if he hadn't been vaporized due to the mirror world, he could have beat her up even without transforming.

We've seen what Asakura is capable of. Is it that hard to believe he could pull that off?

There were no signs that she was tired. It was only afterwards that she tried to hide her wound until she died.

I don't recall.

I don't see how Shinji's speech could be the same if she was male. Quite a few elements of her character would be changed by that, and, yes, that would result in some other meaning for her role.

So if she was a male schoolkid instead of a girl, there would be that much of a difference? How? I don't see it.

Plus all females tend to be put into the love interest spot, because, surprise surprise, Japan isn't a feminist "we don't need no man" country.

Yet this is the same country with a dismal birth rate and less and less women getting married and pursuing careers instead? How does that jive?

You'll never see a male character in toku who exists just to be a love interest (except maybe Tuxedo Mask in PGSM - and that's based on an anime/manga, so it's not quite the same thing.) Therefore there shouldn't be female characters who exist just for that. They should be written the same way.

Don't kid yourself. If such a character came around you'd be complaining about her too because she's too "manly". And how is it not the same thing just because something's based on a comic? Kamen Rider is originally derived from a comic.

 

[Papercut]

Yep, teaching kids that women are just there to be your girlfriend/look pretty for you is hilarious!

When exactly do they ever say or do that? She's there to study. Because she's at school. Gentarou falls for her at school. Which is something that happens. Evidently the humour will come from a delinquent trying to convince whatever this girl is like to go out with him. Not everything has to be an insult to women's rights, lazycoconut.

If anything I'm very pro-women's rights and always try to portray strong females in my writing. Within the bounds of the narrative, this is a young, strong girl going to school every day to better herself, probably so that one day she can get into university and be a success. If she's kind hearted or any of those other things that just makes her a good role model. It might not be the most complex personality but at least she's not doing drugs under a railway tunnel and stabbing people.

Miu and Yuuki are just different strands of the girly-girly idol type. ("Weird goth/emo kid" is pretty gender neutral) Why don't we see more girls who behave like Kengo or Daimonji? Because that would be considered too arrogant/pushy, and therefore not attractive to male viewers who tune in to ogle the girl

Yuuki is a smart girl with aspirations of becoming an astronaut. Hardly a girly-girly idol. Miu said herself that she's always striving to be the best that she can be. She also has an interest in cheerleading. It's inconsequential. Girls have interests too. ..and personally I've never met a girl like Kengo or Daimonji. ..but they do exist and have been portrayed in rider before. I'd say Akiko is the girl version of Daimonji and Santonaka is the girl version of Kengo. ..or at least a close estimate because things change with gender, and that's just a fact of life.

We don't know that yet either!

It was confirmed that she's a transfer student and that's very clearly a school uniform she's wearing.

I just think it's cheap to deliberately make one Rider weaker so the other looks better in comparison (like Proto-Birth vs Birth)

They didn't deliberately make her weaker. They used a prototype system because it makes sense within the plot. Modern rider belts aren't mass produced but sometimes do come in different versions. Think of it like the iPhone. There are lots of different versions because technology evolves. Nadeshiko is a iPhone 4, Fourze is an iPhone 4S. Not really that much worse, one is just older. The only alternative would have been to have Kengo create the newer belt, but then either Nadeshiko is stolen (which makes the girl a bad role model in a show for children) or he'd have given it to Gentarou. Within the plot everything is fine and makes sense.

I'm just having trouble seeing where your problem with her or any of this is coming from.

 

[lazycoconut]

It might not be the most complex personality but at least she's not doing drugs under a railway tunnel and stabbing people.

:laugh: That would certainly be ... different

Yuuki is a smart girl with aspirations of becoming an astronaut. Hardly a girly-girly idol. Miu said herself that she's always striving to be the best that she can be. She also has an interest in cheerleading. It's inconsequential. Girls have interests too.

Yuuki has this artificial smiley, cheery personality intended to appeal to the male gaze. Miu is a little more refined than the stereotypical "mean girl" type, but that's her general character role

..and personally I've never met a girl like Kengo or Daimonji. ..but they do exist and have been portrayed in rider before. I'd say Akiko is the girl version of Daimonji and Santonaka is the girl version of Kengo. ..or at least a close estimate because things change with gender, and that's just a fact of life.

Er, what? Kengo doesn't look at fashion magazines and fuss around with his looks all the time nor does the camera pan lovingly up his backside when he appears. Akiko isn't an arrogant bully. My point being that things shouldn't change with gender, there is no need to create this false dichotomy of "masculine" and "feminine

It was confirmed that she's a transfer student and that's very clearly a school uniform she's wearing.

I mean it's not confirmed that she's a unique character with a well founded purpose in the story ... I will concede your other points though on the basis of speculation

Don't kid yourself. If such a character came around you'd be complaining about her too because she's too "manly".

No, I wouldn't. All characters would be written equally

And how is it not the same thing just because something's based on a comic? Kamen Rider is originally derived from a comic.

Because Tuxedo Mask's personality was already defined for him by the source material, whereas KR is written from scratch each year

 

[Winter Chevalier]

Because Tuxedo Mask's personality was already defined for him by the source material, whereas KR is written from scratch each year

I'm just gonna jump in here and say that Tuxedo Kamen was a badass. I watched Sailor Moon when I was little, and I wanted to be suave like him when I grew up, lol

*goes to find himself a Tuxedo Kamen avatar*

 

[Papercut]

Yuuki has this artificial smiley, cheery personality intended to appeal to the male gaze. Miu is a little more refined than the stereotypical "mean girl" type, but that's her general character role

They have general roles but we're only six episodes in. I'm sure they'll be fleshed out before the end. We already know they have dreams and the show is about them reaching their dreams with their own hands right? That's what it says in the theme song? Seem like strong enough characters to me that it'll be a fun ride.

Er, what? Kengo doesn't look at fashion magazines and fuss around with his looks all the time nor does the camera pan lovingly up his backside when he appears. Akiko isn't an arrogant bully. My point being that things shouldn't change with gender, there is no need to create this false dichotomy of "masculine" and "feminine

Ignoring the cameraman thing, which is all the director and film crew's prerogative and has no actual basis in the plot..

Those are the changes that come with gender, because the dichotomy of masculine and feminine isn't false -and that isn't a bad thing. Ignoring the characters habits, the basic tenants of personality are there. Kengo and Santonaka are both professionals, very focused on the mission at hand. ..although Santonaka is doing it mainly for the money because of the previous show's big focus on SUBARASHI DESIRE!! etc.

Akiko is kind of arrogant and forced her way into a leadership role, so actually she's kind of more like Miu. ..although i'd say Akiko is a lot more self-centered. But I've never really seen a girl jock type in real life either. But again I'm sure they exist, they just aren't a fit for THIS story.

Girls CAN be feminine without necessarily being a plaything for men. Masculinity and Femininity ARE hardwired into the human body via the chemical make-up of the brain. There are certain reactions which are more commonly made by certain genders for just this reason. It's a part of the brains chemistry. Testosterone means that men are more quick to anger or be arrogant, for instance. (Which I apologise for if you feel offended by any of this, I don't intend to come off as arrogant and I'm certainly not angry, this is quite a fun conversation)

Femininity in itself can be empowering. The fact they're feminine doesn't stop them from being good role models and characters, and I'm sure as the show goes on we'll see these 'idol' like qualities bringing out flaws too.

I mean it's not confirmed that she's a unique character with a well founded purpose in the story ... I will concede your other points though on the basis of speculation

I'm sure she'll be unique within the confines of the story. ..or at least a decent foil to Gentarou. If not then ..well I don't wear a hat, so i'll eat my ..metaphorical hat? I don't know. I guess I'll just be wrong. ..but I hope not.

I'm just gonna jump in here and say that Tuxedo Kamen was a badass. I watched Sailor Moon when I was little, and I wanted to be suave like him when I grew up, lol

Also yeah, he was my favourite character in Sailor Moon too. I didn't see a problem with him.

 

[KamenRiderBiblio]

Yet this is the same country with a dismal birth rate and less and less women getting married and pursuing careers instead? How does that jive?

The birth rate is because men are realizing how pointless sex and marriage these days are, especially with dating sims and onaholes.

Also, as for lazycoconut's attitude, this is my reply. Either she's delusional or an elaborate troll.

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[Papercut]

The birth rate is because men are realizing how pointless sex and marriage these days are, especially with dating sims and onaholes.

Also, as for lazycoconut's attitude, this is my reply. Either she's delusional or an elaborate troll.

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Dude. That picture and post isn't helping anything here. Giving off a bad impression for the rest of us much!

 

[lazycoconut]

Dude. That picture and post isn't helping anything here. Giving off a bad impression for the rest of us much!

He's admitted on other posts that he hates women for personal reasons. I feel sorry for his complete inability to see women as anything other than servants or sex objects

Femininity in itself can be empowering. The fact they're feminine doesn't stop them from being good role models and characters

Hm ... let's see. There's being tough, strong, aggressive, the hero of every story, with a dominance in most fields of achievement. Or there's being girly-girly, cutesy, staying at home doing chores and being expected to always be the vulnerable, emotional one. Which of those is more empowering? Hint: it ain't the latter. That's why I think it's actually a good thing there aren't more female Riders. There's not much use in setting up a character to be a hero and then putting them in a role that contradicts that

 

[KamenRiderBiblio]

Dude. That picture and post isn't helping anything here. Giving off a bad impression for the rest of us much!

Just saying.

Her complaining about women in Kamen Rider, a show aimed at LITTLE BOYS, is like me complaining there are too few male ponies in MLP, a show aimed at LITTLE GIRLS.

On topic. Is this the second Rider?

 

[lazycoconut]

On topic. Is this the second Rider?

^ People concluded further up the thread that it is a photoshop