Kabuto - Still the best.

[NeonZ]

:eyebrow:

Agito's main storyline was just badly executed.

Initially, there are the Kuuga connections that thankfully quickly faded away. These Unknown are supposed to be stronger than the Grongi yet they never showed abilities comparable to what Kuuga did in the later half of the show. Yet, the police kept getting surprised every time the G3 failed initially, acting like it was supposed to perform better against Grongi, even though the Unknown were shown to be much weaker. They tried to conveniently forget the parts of Kuuga that would make this show harder to write, like the large scale destruction and the whole atmosphere of the final battle.

Now, about Agito's story itself. Agito's initially attacked G3 for no reason at all besides creating some artificial conflict down the road, only the Trinity form had any kind of explanation behind it, rather than just happening (and this is the main character!), the explanation behind the ship incident didn't actually explain anything (the overlord of light killed in ancient times was in the ship? Huh?), the other overlord and the final battle against him were basically a farce considering how pathetic it was for its supposed role (edit: both power-wise and also knowledge-wise. He was basically outsmarted in the end after all).

Agito's strength is the main cast, which is much more down to Earth and realistic compared to the ones in later series, the Unknown's attacks, the way that the police and general public was handled and everything about G3 (well, besides its poorly done Kuuga connections). I loved Kabuto's cast, but I'd never argue that their characterization was anywhere near as realistic as Agito's.

Edit: Really, even if you still believe that the lack of explanation about Daisuke's and Tsurugi's Zecters is a significant flaw in Kabuto's storytelling, Agito's problems often hurt the actual main storyline of the show.

 

[MrMonk]

Agito's main storyline was just badly executed.

Initially, there are the Kuuga connections that thankfully quickly faded away. These Unknown are supposed to be stronger than the Grongi yet they never showed abilities comparable to what Kuuga did in the later half of the show. Yet, the police kept getting surprised every time the G3 failed initially, acting like it was supposed to perform better against Grongi, even though the Unknown were shown to be much weaker. They tried to conveniently forget the parts of Kuuga that would make this show harder to write, like the large scale destruction and the whole atmosphere of the final battle.

G3's lack of power was due to the fact that it was built to fight an enemy that had no longer existed. Hence, there was nothing to test against. G3-X was the resulting suit created based on the feedback they gained from an enemy they were actively fighting. They made mention of the poor performance of the G3 suit within the confines of the show itself.

Now, about Agito's story itself. Agito's initially attacked G3 for no reason at all besides creating some artificial conflict down the road,

The G3 attack was down to berserker rage. Episode 3, Shoichi begins to do his Rider kick, then stops, looks down at his hands, and stumbles away from the battle. He dehenshins, touches his head, and later falls off his bike due to head pains. He even clutches Mana and asks her to help him. He sleeps in the next day, which they remark is not like him. Shoichi makes mention that he's fearful of the changes he's going through. These are all subtle clues dropped within the same episode to reinforce that scene.

only the Trinity form had any kind of explanation behind it, rather than just happening (and this is the main character!)

I actually felt the opposed about Trinity Form. I personally feel it wasn't needed, nor did it add anything.

, the explanation behind the ship incident didn't actually explain anything (the overlord of light killed in ancient times was in the ship? Huh?),

This is the one I was actually hoping you'd bring up. I agree.

the other overlord and the final battle against him were basically a farce considering how pathetic it was for its supposed role.

They showed previously that he was not in fact, all-powerful, and Shining Form was equal to the El's which were created to protect the Overlord while he did that weird thing the the constallations.

Even then, Shining Kick didn't kill him. He just decided to take his ball and go home.

None of these explanations even count the backstory given from other expanded media.

And again, Kabuto's story, I merely use Daisuke as an example. It's not the only problem, merely indicative of the overall picture, which was rather uneven. Agito provided a more consistent story. I could go into this more, but again, we've been over this ground. Perhaps I will do post-mortems, as I've just recently watched Kuuga - Hibiki with the girlfriend.

 

[NeonZ]

They made mention of the poor performance of the G3 suit within the confines of the show itself.

They mentioned the poor performance of the G3 suit in relation to the new enemy, always using the excuse that it'd have actually performed well against the Unidentified life forms - even though that's patently untrue considering the kind of things Kuuga had to do to defeat the later ones, and the total lack of such feats in Agito.

The G3 attack was down to berserker rage. Episode 3, Shoichi begins to do his Rider kick, then stops, looks down at his hands, and stumbles away from the battle. He dehenshins, touches his head, and later falls off his bike due to head pains. He even clutches Mana and asks her to help him. He sleeps in the next day, which they remark is not like him. Shoichi makes mention that he's fearful of the changes he's going

He never randomly attacked anyone else though, and the way he behaved as Agito just didn't hint at an out of control fury.

You're right about the memory lapses, but that doesn't really explain that incident.

I actually felt the opposed about Trinity Form. I personally feel it wasn't needed, nor did it add anything.

Wasn't Trinity form the one he got after recovering his memories? At least, it had a trigger. The other ones just appeared. It wasn't the best designed or most used form in the show, but its introduction was tied to something.

They showed previously that he was not in fact, all-powerful, and Shining Form was equal to the El's which were created to protect the Overlord while he did that weird thing the the constallations.

It's not a matter of being all powerful though. The overlord was supposed to have much more experience and knowledge about his own powers than Shoichi or any other Agito character had, yet he still was basically outsmarted by the main trio (setting up his own defeat with a really bad plan). Sure, he wasn't completely destroyed, but he still was driven into a corner, dropped his plans and disappeared.

Edit: The creation of the last two Els shows that he was expecting some interruption, so his defeat can't even be blamed on arrogance.

 

[Yellow Stranger]

They mentioned the poor performance of the G3 suit in relation to the new enemy, always using the excuse that it'd have actually performed well against the Unidentified life forms - even though that's patently untrue considering the kind of things Kuuga had to do to defeat the later ones, and the total lack of such feats in Agito.

I chalked that to the inventor trying to fiercely defend her invention in front of a skeptical board of investors. We have no way of knowing if the G3 system would of actually been effective against the Grongi/Unidentifed life forms. Though given that G3-X was actually effective against the Unknown, when they had the ability to gather data on that monster group and make a system geared toward combating that, it's probably that the G3 system probably could have worked against the grongi, though again, no proof.

He never randomly attacked anyone else though, and the way he behaved as Agito just didn't hint at an out of control fury.

You're right about the memory lapses, but that doesn't really explain that incident.

I don't think it was an berserk issue, but more of a just basic running on instincts issue. G3 appeared in the battle area with a weapon, Agito figured it as a threat (Especially since Shoichi probably had no clue the G3 program existed.) and attacked.

It's not a matter of being all powerful though. The overlord was supposed to have much more experience and knowledge about his own powers than Shoichi or any other Agito character had, yet he still was basically outsmarted by the main trio (setting up his own defeat with a really bad plan). Sure, he wasn't completely destroyed, but he still was driven into a corner, dropped his plans and disappeared.

Edit: The creation of the last two Els shows that he was expecting some interruption, so his defeat can't even be blamed on arrogance.

I think the issue in the end for the overlord wasn't his experience with his own powers, but his underestimate in the potential of his own creations, even excluding the seeds of Agito. He did make precautionary efforts in case Agito and his buddies interfered. But in the end, it was the human spirit that the overlord had lost domain over that brought him down.

 

[Nana]

He never randomly attacked anyone else though, and the way he behaved as Agito just didn't hint at an out of control fury.

You're right about the memory lapses, but that doesn't really explain that incident.

Most of the people who got the Agito's power went nuts. Yukina, Aki, that dirty photographer, KINO, Shoichi was fortunate enough to have positive influences to overcome the same fates as the previous people.

 

[Yellow Stranger]

I dunno about that, most of them were driving themselves insane over what happened on that ship (Which Shoichi couldn't remember) than anything the Agito's power did to them.

Wait, You said Yukina. . . Umm Stress from the tests?

 

[The_Next!!!]

To me, Kabuto was dragged down by the fact it's main character was totally unlikeable. Sometimes I found myself rooting for the bad guys, something I would normally NEVER do.

 

[MrMonk]

To me, Kabuto was dragged down by the fact it's main character was totally unlikeable. Sometimes I found myself rooting for the bad guys, something I would normally NEVER do.

I enjoyed Tendou. He's Captain Kirk. He wasn't supposed to change, he was supposed to change the world around him.

 

[aniking_8]

He seem to be the god of Kamen Riders before Deacde, but Tendou still better then Tsukasa because he knows his goal in life and even survive from death twice in his childhood and Gattack.

 

[MrMonk]

They mentioned the poor performance of the G3 suit in relation to the new enemy, always using the excuse that it'd have actually performed well against the Unidentified life forms - even though that's patently untrue considering the kind of things Kuuga had to do to defeat the later ones, and the total lack of such feats in Agito.

They hoped it would've worked well against the Grongi. Science is nothing without experimentation.

He never randomly attacked anyone else though, and the way he behaved as Agito just didn't hint at an out of control fury.

You're right about the memory lapses, but that doesn't really explain that incident.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1snYjGHYw0[/ame]
You see it at about 1 minute. He clearly goes from large and in charge to 'huh?' what the hell is going on? The result of realizing he's changing sends him into an ennui for the rest of the episode.

Wasn't Trinity form the one he got after recovering his memories? At least, it had a trigger. The other ones just appeared. It wasn't the best designed or most used form in the show, but its introduction was tied to something.

He did, but then he lost them again a short time later. Was a rather random instance really.

It's not a matter of being all powerful though. The overlord was supposed to have much more experience and knowledge about his own powers than Shoichi or any other Agito character had, yet he still was basically outsmarted by the main trio (setting up his own defeat with a really bad plan). Sure, he wasn't completely destroyed, but he still was driven into a corner, dropped his plans and disappeared.

The creation of the last two Els shows that he was expecting some interruption, so his defeat can't even be blamed on arrogance.

I believe the Els were there because the realigning of the constallations put him in a weakened state, but it's never implicitly state anywhere, so it's really just conjecture.