Is marriage ruining Comic Characters...?

[StriderXXX]

i've notice that most comic character starts to suck after they get hitched...

spidey and mj
cyclop and jean grey/madelyne pryor
superman and lois.

etc etc...

 

[Skyknight]

Marraige in comics is a better thing to read about that an unattainable loser fulfilling the needs of readers who are married. It says more about them than the characters.

I was raised on Peter and MJ as a married couple, so they were never a problem for me or anyone I've talked to on the subject. They ARE the definitive Marvel couple and the company face nightmares doing nothing with it other than angst it up or pretend it never happened...where as with The Fantastic Four, they use the family dynamic more positively

The Scott/Jean marraige hasnt been around for a while. Jean's dead/soon to be ressurected, and Emma is Scott's current interest (though how much of that is up to Scott or Jean giving him the push in "Here Comes Tommorow" is up to interpretation) I loved how they handled the triangle in Wolverine and the X-Men. I don't know if the marraige will resume if Jean is revived, but it's a good chance it will

Scott was never intended to come back after he married Madelyne by the way. Claremont admitted as much. His abandoning Madelyne to reunite with Jean gave him this darker side that his all-purpose "nice guy" role had been lacking, so he became MUCH easier to keep around afterwards

Spidey sucks without marraige. Ditko never wanted Peter to graduate high school for a good reason.

Instead of being "Archie-lite" forever, Stan graduated Peter and sent the characters on one-way courses to thier storylines being completly closed...which has now happened regardless of reboots and blunt denile.

To it's credit, the current crop of diversity, from USM to the newspaper strip, to developing the marraige without ALL the focus on Peter in Spider-Girl, hides the fracturing pretty well and allows them to grow and develop ideas.

Maybe you ought to be more pissed off Spidey GRADUATED let alone got married.

I thoroughly enjoyed Superman for years after he married Lois. I'm not enjoying it right now because the writing is **** and the remaining members of The Lanes are being turned into homicidal maniacs...plus I've never been a fan of bucketloads of active Kryptonians flying around

I think marraige in comics is a major test of how far a character can go dramaticly, and a test of writer's creativity. If they can't creativly continue to explore fresh ideas with the concept of family and overcoming obstacles, then, frankly, they have no right calling themselves writers, or have any right writing iconic characters.

Mysogomy, shades of grey, and defatist attitudes in comics are a much bigger problem than something educational and uplifiting like family values, heroism, selflessness, and marraige. Look at the track record of females that have been given the finger by Marvel and D.C over the last few years...there's been some brutal **** to the point I'm glad that there's been turnaround in recent years with an emphasis on marraige and parenting with several heroes.

 

[Tanuki]

I think marraige in comics is a major test of how far a character can go dramaticly, and a test of writer's creativity. If they can't creativly continue to explore fresh ideas with the concept of family and overcoming obstacles, then, frankly, they have no right calling themselves writers, or have any right writing iconic characters.

Mysogomy, shades of grey, and defatist attitudes in comics are a much bigger problem than something educational and uplifiting like family values, heroism, selflessness, and marraige. Look at the track record of females that have been given the finger by Marvel and D.C over the last few years...there's been some brutal **** to the point I'm glad that there's been turnaround in recent years with an emphasis on marraige and parenting with several heroes.

TT__TT You are the MAN

 

[ryuuseipro]

TT__TT You are the MAN

I second that.

There's too much shock value in comics as it is. Writers want to "darken up" the characters, so they can "lose" something, like Batman.

I don't remember who said it, but someone once said, "There's nothing heroic about a hero who loses."

 

[Skyknight]

Take a look at the Batman comics lately and there's not been so much "losing" either...guy has a stacked deck with his family to the point the company can actually take him out for a cup of coffe and focus entirely on 'em.

 

[Skinwalker]

Marriage done right in comics can be fine... It's when writers get forced to marry a couple or someone decides to unmarry a couple it's a problem. All depends how it's handled.

Take Storm and Black Panther... It was gimicky, it took her out of the X-Men, it forced the writers of all the other titles to deal with it, but it also provided some interesting developments; like a little bit touched on Forge's feelings over it and what might have been. She returned to Uncanny under Brubaker before House of M, and he showed she was still the same Storm, still interesting, but out of the way.

The Spidey/ MJ thing was huge. Before that happened, House of M (while it might not have been the greatest story) made a great storyline looking at what Peter Parker's life would have been like had Gwen lived and been his wife, had a child with him. Then he had to see reality go back to normal, where Gwen was dead and that son never existed. After that it, One More Day just made even less sense. What's next? Gwen comes back again, Aunt May dies, Uncle Ben comes back?


Marriages, kids, moving relationships forward is great done right and at a decent writer's own discretion. Maybe it'd be nice to see a couple who've been together in a comic for a while just go get hitched spontaneously in Vegas in the middle of an issue, instead of having a huge arc and a special one shot for the wedding and one for the stag night, hen night and honeymoon.

 

[Eldar]

After that it, One More Day just made even less sense. What's next? Gwen comes back again, Aunt May dies, Uncle Ben comes back?

Gwen was suppose to come back in BND along with Harry.

 

[Skinwalker]

Gwen was suppose to come back in BND along with Harry.

...Wow.
This is why I didn't read One More Day or anything after it.

 

[MrMonk]

Marraige in comics is a better thing to read about that an unattainable loser fulfilling the needs of readers who are married. It says more about them than the characters.

I was raised on Peter and MJ as a married couple, so they were never a problem for me or anyone I've talked to on the subject. They ARE the definitive Marvel couple and the company face nightmares doing nothing with it other than angst it up or pretend it never happened...where as with The Fantastic Four, they use the family dynamic more positively

I'd say the definitive Marvel couple is Reed Richards/Sue Storm. That will never change.

Too many people are still hung up on Gwen for MJ and Pete to be the number one. Then there are the Black Cat hangers-on, who had nothing to work with once Peter got married.

Scott was never intended to come back after he married Madelyne by the way. Claremont admitted as much. His abandoning Madelyne to reunite with Jean gave him this darker side that his all-purpose "nice guy" role had been lacking, so he became MUCH easier to keep around afterwards

Sadly, he never really got much useful play outside of Morrison dusting him off. The pieces were all there and Lobdell started to play around with him a bit after the Apoc. thing, but Morrison really made him shine.

Spidey sucks without marraige. Ditko never wanted Peter to graduate high school for a good reason.

Instead of being "Archie-lite" forever, Stan graduated Peter and sent the characters on one-way courses to thier storylines being completly closed...which has now happened regardless of reboots and blunt denile.

To it's credit, the current crop of diversity, from USM to the newspaper strip, to developing the marraige without ALL the focus on Peter in Spider-Girl, hides the fracturing pretty well and allows them to grow and develop ideas.

Maybe you ought to be more pissed off Spidey GRADUATED let alone got married.

Not pissed. Again, I grew up with the marriage, I'm perfectly fine with the marriage. I wanted them to give Peter his happy ending during Clone Saga. Ben wasn't the best thing in the world, but I felt if they were going to do, then give Peter his family and happy ending. (I feel the same way about Wally West currently)

Didn't want Norman to come back, but hey, they've done good with him over the years.

I feel the same about OMD. Hated it, but hey...it done. Live with it. They're putting out great Spider-man stories again.

I thoroughly enjoyed Superman for years after he married Lois. I'm not enjoying it right now because the writing is **** and the remaining members of The Lanes are being turned into homicidal maniacs...plus I've never been a fan of bucketloads of active Kryptonians flying around

I'm only reading Robinson's title as I'm a big fan of Mon-El and Steel.

I think marraige in comics is a major test of how far a character can go dramaticly, and a test of writer's creativity. If they can't creativly continue to explore fresh ideas with the concept of family and overcoming obstacles, then, frankly, they have no right calling themselves writers, or have any right writing iconic characters.

Mysogomy, shades of grey, and defatist attitudes in comics are a much bigger problem than something educational and uplifiting like family values, heroism, selflessness, and marraige. Look at the track record of females that have been given the finger by Marvel and D.C over the last few years...there's been some brutal **** to the point I'm glad that there's been turnaround in recent years with an emphasis on marraige and parenting with several heroes.

Can't argue with this, but hey... spilt milk. Didn't want Colussus to die. Rolled with it. Same with Kitty. Synch from Generation X. Myriad other characters. It happens. That's comics. I mod a rather large comics-centric message board, and I've been reading comics for most of my life, so I'm used to seeing all the arguments, but really, I just decided to get used to it. No reason getting your heart rate up over it because things always change. Hal Jordan and Barry Allen are back, for God's sakes.

I think we're getting better as an industry, as we have a wide variety of heroes for all people. Married heroes, single parent heroes, gay heroes, and heroes of all races.

 

[Skyknight]

I'd say the definitive Marvel couple is Reed Richards/Sue Storm. That will never change.

Only in the eyes of comic fans. The FF have always been a mixed success outside of comics. Spidey is the flagship franchise, that makes him and MJ the flagship couple no matter what others claim.

Too many people are still hung up on Gwen for MJ and Pete to be the number one.

Those people can't seem to get it through their skulls Gwen was an emotional basket-case who self-destructed around everyone at the drop of a pin, had a thing for older men because of being too attached to her father, Peter didnt know what "love" was at the time, and MJ was always trying to date him before he even met Gwen, had loved him from afar, and had always been the fun-loving pillar of support for everyone, no drama, no angst, and that's why the fans that backed her ultimatley persuded Lee and Gerry Orway to focus on her with the intention of pairing Peter up with MJ.

When the co-creator of Spider-Man knows what's best for his character, then it's hard for those who havent "gotten over Gwen", a contemptable drama queen at best, to have much of an argument.

Black Cat never had a chance. She was a criminal, she would never entirely change, and above all else, she was obviously a rebound chick for MJ. Peter settling for Felicia would prove a slap in the face to his morals and principles to the reader

Peter and MJ are the definitive couple. Thery had the better writing, they had the better drama, and there just more down-to-earth than Reed and Sue, who are almost unrelatable without kids due to their less-than-reallistic lifestyle, all of that "ordinary" stuff was given to Johnny and Ben.

Not pissed. Again, I grew up with the marriage, I'm perfectly fine with the marriage. I wanted them to give Peter his happy ending during Clone Saga. Ben wasn't the best thing in the world, but I felt if they were going to do, then give Peter his family and happy ending. (I feel the same way about Wally West currently)

I'll agree here. D.C did the smart thing and replaced an established, popular Flash with another established, popular Flash.

Peter doesnt have that luxery sadly. If Uncle Ben had been Spidey before him, I'd guarantee you'd see him in the coustume right now:thumbs:

Didn't want Norman to come back, but hey, they've done good with him over the years.

Turning him into Lex Luthor, was an appealing short-term concept that they stretched out to ludicroussness. It's no longer beleivable

Turning him into Obidiah Stane lately hasnt helped either.

If you can't write THE GREEN GOBLIN, don't write him at all.

I feel the same about OMD. Hated it, but hey...it done. Live with it. They're putting out great Spider-man stories again.

There's nothing recognisible about Spidey or any of his supporting cast in BND whatsoever. Again, proving that the current crop of writers can't cut it and have to break every character in order to do anything fresh with them. If that's what it takes to tell "great" Spider-Man stories again..then no, there not writing Spider-Man

Peter sold out his wife, his ideals, his responsiblity, and his whole character to implement the retcon we see now. That isnt what Spider-Man is about, and BND CERTAINGLY isnt Spider-Man in any shape or form. I don't think some people who like it generally have read Spidey as dilligently as they claim. I think there just accept anything with the name "Spider-Man" on the title...a problem with a lot of Marvel's titles and "readership" these days

Quesada is a fan of Spider-Girl and respects it so much, he even called it the "natural continuity"...I think I'll settle for that since it's the only place where the Peter and MJ I knew, the Peter and MJ who got their happy ending, are allowed to be who they really are, all whilst mentoring a fresh new character with her own problems, supporting cast, and story.

Can't argue with this, but hey... spilt milk. Didn't want Colussus to die. Rolled with it. Same with Kitty. Synch from Generation X. Myriad other characters. It happens. That's comics. I mod a rather large comics-centric message board, and I've been reading comics for most of my life, so I'm used to seeing all the arguments, but really, I just decided to get used to it. No reason getting your heart rate up over it because things always change. Hal Jordan and Barry Allen are back, for God's sakes.

I'm more pissed off people "live with it" rather than do anything about it. Complaciency will kill this industry more than the shock-value

Even if things always go back to the way things were, prolonging that for as long as you can is even better.