Harmonix Employee's Thoughts on the PS3

Keith Justice

New Member
Huh...

I read various game forums from time to time, and often see gamers complaining about 'lazy ports' to the ps3. They often mention how the ps3 is the most powerful game console and blame developers working on the console for doing a bad job. Sony has all of these people duped by impressive marketing spin, and I'm often amazed at how potent this type of rhetoric proves to be. For those unaware, I'm going to break it down simply and explain exactly why ports to the ps3 will never be as good as their 360 counter parts, and why most ps3 exclusives will likely continue to suck. First, lets debunk a few common misconceptions:

"The PS3 is more graphically advanced than the 360"

Fill rate is one of the primary ways to measure graphics performance - in essence, it's a number describing how many pixel operations you can perform. The fill rate on the PS3 is significantly slower than on the 360, meaning that games either have to run at lower resolution or use simpler shader effects to achieve the same performance. Additionally, the shader processing on the ps3 is significantly slower than on the 360, which means that a normal map takes more fill rate to draw on the ps3 than it does on the 360. And I'm not talking about small differences here, we're talking roughly half the pixel pushing power.

"Ok, fine, but the cell is like, super powerful"

In theory, sure, but in reality it doesn't work out that way. Game code simply doesn't split well across multiple processors. You can probably find a way to split a few things off fairly easily - put the audio on one processor, animation on another; but generally the breakup is always going to leave several of the SPUs idle or underutilized. On top of that, it's usually not CPU speed that restricts the visuals in games - it's fill rate.

"Uh, Blue Ray!"

Great for watching movies, but not so great for games. Getting data off the blue ray drive takes about twice as long as it does to get the same data off the 360's DVD drive. That translates into longer load times, or god forbid if your streaming from disk, tighter constraints on the amount of data you can stream.

"But it's got a lot more space than DVD"

Ok, you got me there - it does have a lot more space, and there is the potential to use that to do something cool, but thats unlikely to be realized in any useful way. There are tons of compression techniques available for data and I'd personally rather be able to get my data faster than have more of it. Most developers who use the entire Blue Ray drive are doing it to work around other problems with the ps3 such as it's slow loading - for instance, in Resistance: Fall of Man, every art asset is stored on disk once for every level that uses it. So rather than storing one copy of a texture, you're storing it 12 times. If you took that entire game and removed all the duplicate data, it would likely fit on a DVD without any problem. They do this to speed up load times, which, as I pointed out before, are painfully slow on the ps3. So in this case, the extra space is completely wasted.

"Once developers figure out the PS3 they'll maximize the hardware and it will be amazing"

I suspect a small number of PS3 only developers will optimize the hardware to do something cool. However, this will be an exception to the rule, and will likely involved game designs that are specifically designed for the hardware and funded by Sony. If those will prove to be fun or not is another question.

Most of the performance centric research into the PS3 has been around making it easier for developers to get the same level of performance you get out of the 360 naturally. For instance, some developers are using those extra SPU's on the cell to prepare data for the rendering pipeline. Basically, they take the data they would normally send to the graphics chip, send it to an SPU which optimizes it in some manner, then send it to the graphics chip. So, once again we see an 'advantage' in hardware being used to make up for a disadvantage in another area - a common theme with the ps3. And this introduces an extra frame of latency into the equation, making controller response slower.

So, the common theme is this; developers must spend significantly more time and resources getting the PS3 to do what the 360 can already do easily and with a lot less code. Lets look at how this translates into practical realities for a moment:

Why the PS3 version often pails in comparison to the 360 version, and why exclusives often suck:

As outlined above, getting equivalent performance out of the PS3 requires a lot of work unique to the platform, and in many cases, even with all these tricks, you still won't see equivalent performance. Thus, many ps3 games have simplified shaders and run at lower native resolutions than the 360 versions. On top of this, there is shrinking incentive to do this work; the PS3 isn't selling.

The code needed to make the PS3 work is most likely only useful to you on the PS3, as the types of tricks you need to do to make the thing perform are very unique to the platform and unlikely to be useful on any other architecture now or in the future. These issues all stem from unbalanced hardware design, and any future hardware that is this unbalanced will likely be unbalanced in a completely unique way.

Finally, there's the problem of resources. Game Development is, at it's heart, a resource management challenge. Given finite resources, do I have these five engineers work on optimizing the PS3 version to look better, or do I use them to make the game play better and fix bugs? Do I change my design to fit with what the PS3 hardware does well, or simply run the game at a slightly lower resolution on the PS3 to make up for it? Developers striving to push the PS3 hardware have often sacrificed their game in the process.

This post might come across as a lot of Sony bashing, but it's just the reality from the trenches. Sony let their hardware be designed by a comity of business interests rather than a well thought out design that would serve the game development community. They are going to loose hard this round because of it, and I hope that in the next round they take lessons from this round and produce a more balanced and usable machine.

http://jbooth.blogspot.com/2007/10/ps3-misconceptions-and-spin.html
 
You know, I've been thinking the exact same thing for a while now. More and more PS3 is turning into the Sega Saturn.

Despite the above, Sony has cars, hats, and couches made out of money. I don't quite buy it and think that they'll end up on top again like they always do.

This sounds exactally like the kinda stuff we heard about the PS2 when it kicked off.

I guess we'll wait and see. Main thing... PS3 still has yet to even announce anything jaw dropping that I want on the system.

PSP on the other hand... Crisis Core..... that sounds pretty interesting.
 
Despite the above, Sony has cars, hats, and couches made out of money.

Actually, this really isn't true. The company as a whole has been steadily on the decline for quite awhile. Only the games division was doing well, but now even that isn't thanks to the PS3. Supposedly each territory is now responsible for pricing the system as they see fit, but each one is also responsible for incurring any losses in profitability on their own. Ask Tim about it sometime, he wrote a term paper on it for grad school.

Anyway, much like I did with the Saturn, I'm enjoying the hell out of my PS3 while the naysayers chant "DOOM!"
 
This coming for an unknown developer who used to work at a gaming studio that made guitar hero of all games ... yep, very credible as a source.

In the first year of the PS2 a lot of devs were also complaining about the fact they had to put in extra effort to master the new architecture and we all know how that turned out. Heck, there are already games out that prove the PS3 is worth something in the graphics department, provide you take the time to master the architecture.

I'm not worried one bit about the future of the PS3.

Besides, for each dev yapping about the difficulties to program for the PS3, I can find just as many articles of devs yapping about the lack of space on the 360's DVD's or the limitations of some 360's not having built in HDDs or yet the difficulties to make the 360 push out native full HD. Why are we only seeing the negative articles on the PS3 being published here? Just to name one, Kojima from Konami said that MGS4 wouldn't be possible on 360 ... and as a developer I think his word outweighs a totally unknown dev from a little studio like Harmonix.
 
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Uhhh... I read different and Kojima saying that it would be possible to port it to the 360. Did that change?

What I think is that the 360 will win America, but NEVER Japan.

Nintendo will win both.

I've been thinking about it this sounds like what I heard about the PS2. That it was hard to make games for, but the edge PS2 had was that everyone wanted a DVD player and PS2 blitzed the world with sheer numbers that developers had to make games for it.

This time around, that's not happening. Wii made that blitz this time around and 360 holds a very significant lead. And now developers are looking at the landscape and seeing where they can best make their money with the least amount of effort and that's Wii and 360.

MGS4 and PS3 are hoping the two push hardware. Which I don't know if it will or not. And if it doesn't push enough, just like Resident Evil 4, it will make the jump to another platform.

I think the PS3 has nothing to worry about in Japan and Europe. I hear the 360 ain't doin' jack in those two territories. But for the States... the 360 just might win this round, and for good reason.

Here's a pretty good rant from David Lucas of Toon Zone:

I love the Playstation 2. I think it's probably on my Top 3 game systems of all time. I love the PSX, the only thing that ever upset me was watching all the amazing Capcom 2-D ports be 100% arcade perfect on Saturn and suffer on PSX.

I loathe Microsoft. I loathe the original X-Box.

This has nothing to do with being a Microsoft fanboy. I consider myself more of a Sony fanboy, by FAR. However....

....I truly, genuinely feel, the 360 will destroy the PS3. I'm sorry Sony, but facts are facts, and Microsoft just did it better this time around. I heard Ratchet and Clank was friggin' amazing, and I'm sure it is. I'm not saying that the PS3 will never have good games. I KNOW it will.

But the two biggest games that Sony has going for it, doesn't help the chances. The new Final Fantasies? They're still another year away, Sony's stock is hurting NOW (videogame-wise). Yeah, it's great the new FF could very well blow every game out there out of the water because Square Enix can do that.

What does that matter if the poor support, sales, and everything else make the PS3 the loser of this round that will never be able to come back from? That's like Shenmue 8 being developed for the Dreamcast back in 2004 with higher graphical power than anything on PS2. It's just too late.

And I don't care what anyone says, I don't care what Kojima says, the chance of MGS4 being ported to the 360 is almost guaranteed. Whether it takes another year for it to happen, who cares? I'd gladly wait another year for that game. I want to play it so much, but I just can't buy a PS3 because of that sole fact when every game that's coming out in the next year that I really want to play will be out for my 360, too.

What bothers me the most about this whole thing is that Sony, really, truly, thinks we're idiots.

Idiots.

There's nothing they could do or say that would make that not seem true. The whole fiasco with the rumble technology has been brought up before, and I'll bring it up again. It's ****ing retarded. Everyone knows the truth. The few that don't, who cares? If 80% of the people know you're full of it, what does it matter that you're still fooling the 20% of jackasses?

The PS3 marketing campaign failed miserably. Those commercials were cool, I liked them, but it did absolutely nothing for sales. I still say the greatest marketing campaign I ever saw was for the Dreamcast. I remember every time a new commercial came out with Tails and Sonic talking to Alonzo Mourning from NBA 2K while arguing with Virtua Fighter characters while hundreds of video game characters in the background were all partying made me jump up and down in excitement. The 9.9.99 thing was cool too, in it's own way.

Other than the Blu-Ray inclusion, Sony just dropped the ball on every single count. The games aren't good, the price was too high, the 360 ports are almost always the same, the rumble technology is such a small detail but somehow adds so much to the immersion of the game. And every single time that they get asked what the hell happened, they just smile at us and say, "We know! We couldn't have been more pleased with the results either! We blew our own mind!" while we're sitting here scratching our heads trying to figure out what in God's name they're talking about.

I'm not saying Microsoft doesn't have spin doctors. I'm not saying Sony SHOULDN'T have BS that they tell us. I'm saying they have to realize that some of their BS is impossible to work.

Ever since Sony said that you couldn't find a PS3 anywhere a little while after it first came out, when they knew WE knew damn well that was a lie, I stopped believing anything they said. The viral marketing that keeps getting tracked back to them is depressing to see my favorite of the big 3 fall so far.

Seriously, Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft? I stand in Sony's corner any day of the week. But in THIS particular round, my boxer has a broken arm and bleeding profusely from every possible orifice and he's telling me "I got this, man, they're not gonna know what hit them." while the other 2 corners have samurai swords and armor on.

It's insulting to my intelligence, and I LOVE my 360. I love the Marketplace. I love the compatibility with my laptop's Windows. As soon as I get a HDTV, I can't WAIT to get a HD-DVD player. I love the games. I love the controllers. Hell, I even love the start-up sound, when I heard it before it turned into a death machine in Transformers, I smiled so big.

And I HATE Microsoft. But dammit, there's no way anyone can say they wont win this round. The Wii has the greatest sales, yeah, but it's all novelty. I have no desire for the games Wii's coming out with and everytime I EVER see my friends playing a Wii, they're playing Wii Sports. Every. Single. Time.

Sony lost before they even started because they got so psyched by the turnout for their launch that they just assumed the loyalty was so strong they could get away with it.

The Sony fanboys can say whatever they want, I can be torn a new ass for the next 6 months, Sony lost. The PS3, for all intents and purposes, sucks. And this is coming from someone that thinks the original X-box was the worst serious contender in videogame history.

The bottom line is that the 360 is an amazing machine, and despite whatever opinion I have for it's predecessor and creators, even with the rings of death, I have enormous respect for the machine and can't wait to keep adding games to my library.
 
lol all this sony hate. i have a ps3 and had a 360(red ringed). i plan to buy another xbox please fix me whenever good games come for it.there are no games coming out for it soon that interest me so im not worried about my 360 right now.
unreal tournment 3 is fun as heck and im loving it. so im enjoying my ps3 for that.also games games like heavenly sword,call of duty 4, and oblivion are great games. yea i know call of duty 4 and oblivion are on 360 as well but oblivion got graphically enhanced and recieved a better drawing distance thanks to ps3 hardware.
to be honest i play more ps2 games than anything.during gears of war,halo3,resistance fall of man,call of duty 4 and assassins asscream i was playing disgaea 1,2,rogue galaxy,shin megami tensei nocturn and final fantasy xii for the most part.i enjoyed thise next gen titles except assassins creed but the old ps2 titles were genuinley fun and are still fun now.cant say i feel that way about the "next gen" titles.
"next gen" games are an after thought for me. i preferr long lasting fun over the "graphics over gameplay" thinking
of the "next gen" developers.
 
also let me say that when a real company's developer speaks on the ps3 like a guy from square-enix,capcom,epic,snk playmore,level 5,or even spike then ill take what is being said seriously. as of now what the developer said was nothing more than a joke to me.

just my opinion though
 

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