Gundam Wing

[Lynxara]

That may have been the official line and partially true, but it came down to just needing different suits to sell new gunpla. Which they really needed after Gundam X sank.

I have no problems believing this. The Gundam X gunpla line was of such poor quality that it almost single-handedly drove the cancellation of the show, despite typical ratings in its original timeslot.

What I've heard with the X line is that Bandai tried out a cheaper production method, because they wanted higher profit margins per unit than they saw on the hard-to-engineer G and W lines. The result was a line of models with very poor joints that also had difficulty staying together.

Comparing the quality of your average model from the original G line to the original X line shows a massive decline. No wonder Japanese fans completely turned on X.

Katoki made his career off designs that had a more realistic and military bent so saying he was your first choice for an angel winged super robot makes no sense. But then again I could totally be off base.

I don't really agree with this. Katoki built his career on designs that were very detailed. Sometimes this resulted in a more realistic feel, but he worked with plenty of subject matter (particularly for video games) that bore little relationship to reality.

So I don't have any problems believing that W's director wanted the initial upgrades to look more like the OVA machines, but simply knew that he didn't have the budget to animate them properly. Wing Zero Custom alone would've completely broken a TV budget in the 90s. The TV Wing Zero has a much lower linecount and was undoubtedly easier to deal with in action sequences.

 

[Blue Saint]

I don't really agree with this. Katoki built his career on designs that were very detailed. Sometimes this resulted in a more realistic feel, but he worked with plenty of subject matter (particularly for video games) that bore little relationship to reality.

So I don't have any problems believing that W's director wanted the initial upgrades to look more like the OVA machines, but simply knew that he didn't have the budget to animate them properly. Wing Zero Custom alone would've completely broken a TV budget in the 90s. The TV Wing Zero has a much lower linecount and was undoubtedly easier to deal with in action sequences.

After EW maybe but until then I stand by my statement. I am not that familiar with the SRW series so I can't comment on that, but I do know Virtual On. In Operation Moongate the Virtuaroids were rather militaristic except maybe the Fei-Yen and the Jaguarandi. It wasn't until Oratorio Tangram that we got the more off the wall designs which did come after EW. Also remember at the time

I also have a hard time believing that anyone would even think to have Katoki protagonist designs in a normal series, as you said he is known for detail. That is why I like Okawara he understands and works well with the confines of the medium. It may just be me but I swear he tilts all his lineart just a bit more than usual so you can see more of the design.

And it is a shame about Gundam X though, it had rather strong designs.

 

[Lynxara]

I am not that familiar with the SRW series so I can't comment on that, but I do know Virtual On.

Katoki did work on a lot of video games outside of the Virtual-On series, but yes, he contributed a lot of highly unrealistic (but very detailed) designs to the SRW series. English Wikipedia omits quite a lot of his early video game credits, but there's a few floating around there.

I would say Hajime Katoki's career is ultimately no more dependent on realism than Shoji Kawamori's. Both men are primarily noted for their ability to make very detailed designs, both men have designed some completely ridiculous mecha throughout their careers.

In Operation Moongate the Virtuaroids were rather militaristic except maybe the Fei-Yen and the Jaguarandi.

Militaristic isn't really the same as realistic, though. I would never, ever consider any of the early Virtual On mechs and precious little Gundam mecha realistic. I mean, look at Katoki's Patlabor designs. Militaristic, sure, but there's none of the true realism there you see in, say, a Masamune Shirow mechanical design. Basically any bipedal humanoid robot has left the realm of realism far behind.

I also have a hard time believing that anyone would even think to have Katoki protagonist designs in a normal series, as you said he is known for detail.

I didn't say the director explicitly stated he wanted the OVA designs for the TV series originally, or that he had Katoki do designs originally. The interview I read just said that Katoki's OVA designs were much closer to what the director initially wanted the TV upgrades to look like.

To use a SEED analogy, that show's director wanted the upgrade mecha to combine all of SEED's weapon packs together, but Okawara couldn't come up with a design that did that to his satisfaction in time. So the director picked Freedom off of a stack of concepts Okawara offered instead and went with that.

Now, a Strike IWSP design was eventually completed for SEED's MSV line. It would be incorrect to say that the director wanted Strike IWSP to be the SEED upgrade initially, since the design didn't exist then. It would be totally fair to say that Strike IWSP was closer to the director's original vision than Freedom, even though he opted to use Freedom anyway.

 

[garfield15]

Huh. I guess to me, this like the reverse how I feel about Kabuto in which I love it to death even though I'm aware of it's flaws but it was my first Kamen Rider series so I kind of ignore it. Here, everybody loves Wing because it was their first but I'm just like "I just couldn't get into it." I watched it many years later on DVD and it was okay, but it just seemed flawed and somewhat boring.

I did love Wu Fei's Gundams (just not the character ) and Deathscythe (plus the character. Still can't believe Duo is Momotaros), though seriously, Wing Zero was not all that hot. It had a huge cannon sure, but like, when did that ever actually hit anything that wasn't standing still? I'll give it points for having Heero make that awesome in space jump into the Gundam in EW.

And it did give me this. One of my favorite Gundam OP's ever.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLeCCyi1TNc[/ame]

"I just feel Rhythm Emotion, kono mune no kodou wa..."

I kinda thought the dub wasn't that great though.

 

[MrMonk]

To use a SEED analogy, that show's director wanted the upgrade mecha to combine all of SEED's weapon packs together, but Okawara couldn't come up with a design that did that to his satisfaction in time. So the director picked Freedom off of a stack of concepts Okawara offered instead and went with that.

And thank God for that. Freedom is actually one of my favorite designs, as a bastard child of X and Hi-Nu (to other designs I really enjoy). Followed by Red Astray. I'm also glad that Gundam 00 split the duties for mech designs (Ebikawa, Washio, and Yanase). Ebikawa's Exia grew on me immensely, and I actually started to miss it when they replaced it with the 00. And his Reborns is a striking figure in Gundam mode.

 

[Blue Saint]

I concede on the later points, but it is hard to tell what is truth from company line. As for when I say realistic I mean it in relative terms, the only Gundam designs that I feel could ever come close to being real is the Ball and the Guntank II from MSV, but even that is stretching it. The idea of 50 ton war machines that has to support itself on a single point of contact during movement is laughable. I mean the Gundam is more realistic than say Mazinger Z.

 

[Lynxara]

SEED also split duties for mecha designs, between Okawara and a BEEPLEX newcomer whose name I can't quite remember. Since SEED was the first "traditional" Gundam show in quite some time, though, Bandai was very hesitant to put the BEEPLEX guy's name on anything.

Freedom is unmistakably an Okawara design, though. The BEEPLEX guy I think cooked up the basic concepts for the machines seen in the first half of SEED, including Aegis, which I found to be a rather brilliant bit of engineering.

For 00, the three designers are I believe bankable guys who worked on Full Metal Panic! and some of Mizushima's other prior works. So, they probably get to put their name on their own designs. I really wish that show hadn't reduced its design linecount in the second season....

Oh god, Reborns Gundam... I admire the courage it takes to develop a villain machine design that so completely trolls any part of the fanbase that has gearhead tendencies. I mean, as a satire of all the shitty Gundam transformers that just bend over? It's really quite brilliant.

 

[Blue Saint]

Also don't forget the Reborns Gundam is basically the Hi-Nu piloted by Amuro that replaces his purple/blue with Char's Red. As for the rest of 00 all the different designers really lended itself to the evoultion of the in-universe units. Like how you can see hints of the Avalanche Exia in the 00 Gundam or the Tieren in the Ahead.

And SEED universe is the worst sets of designs ever. It took the gimmick of the main suit and turned it into the design philosophy. Instead of trying to come up with balanced weapon layouts they just shove everything on a backpack. Even when there is a good frame they ruin it with striker/wizard/silhouette unit. The worst part is it wrecks one of my favorite design concepts, the adaptable mission unit/hardpoints. Honestly look at the F90 or the RX-81 series and try and not to think of SEED.

 

[Lynxara]

Also don't forget the Reborns Gundam is basically the Hi-Nu piloted by Amuro that replaces his purple/blue with Char's Red.

Yeah, that aspect of 00's plot I just find frustrating and dull. Getting Tohru Furuya to voice your villain is no great shakes, the guy will voice anything for like $12.50 and half a sandwich.

Making your villain a parody of Amuro is no great shakes, the Gundam franchise has done this like a half a dozen times before. I expect more original thinking from Mizushima, if I want stuff this harebrained I can go watch Fukuda's shows or read Astray.

 

[MrMonk]

Oh god, Reborns Gundam... I admire the courage it takes to develop a villain machine design that so completely trolls any part of the fanbase that has gearhead tendencies. I mean, as a satire of all the shitty Gundam transformers that just bend over? It's really quite brilliant.

The Guncannon switch is fabulous. Absolutely fabulous. We will never see another mecha design so stupid awesome anytime soon.

And SEED universe is the worst sets of designs ever. It took the gimmick of the main suit and turned it into the design philosophy. Instead of trying to come up with balanced weapon layouts they just shove everything on a backpack. Even when there is a good frame they ruin it with striker/wizard/silhouette unit. The worst part is it wrecks one of my favorite design concepts, the adaptable mission unit/hardpoints. Honestly look at the F90 or the RX-81 series and try and not to think of SEED.

SEEDs designs tended to be either odd or rather rote and boring. Blitz I kinda liked, and Impulse was a definite V-inspired (in my opinion) step-up from Strike. I also enjoyed the Windam and Murasame mass-produced models.