[DISCUSSION] Ryusoulger, Episode 17

SamuraiEchidna said:

Absolutely nothing, and I've probably enjoyed that kind of characterization a time or two myself. But you still have to admit that in terms writing a fictional FEMALE character, it's an obviously stereotypical crutch. It's been before tons of times, and not all females in the world care about that kind of thing.

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A lot of people don't care for a lot of things, yet media perpetuates messages promoting them anyway. A lot of girls don't care for the things you think they should want to do.

SamuraiEchidna said:

Personally, if I were creating a fictional TV show aimed at kids of all ages and genders, I'd rather show that girls can be whatever they want to be and relationship goals don't have to be your only life goals. You can do other things too.

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So in other words, you're stuck in 70s-90s era thinking, which has so perpetuated Western media that it seems normal by now. Have you stopped to think that one reason Western countries, let alone Japan, has a dismal level of childbirths and a cultural diminishing of marriage's significance, is because you've conditioned girls (and others who think they're benefiting them) for decades to think they can have it all, that career and self-gratification can substitute for family? That choices don't matter?

What's so wrong about, y'know, wanting to have an actual career? It's weird that you see it as "conditioning" when it's literally just telling girls they're on the same level as guys. Like that's actually hella gross that you see things that way if that's what you're implying.

Black Fang said:

So in other words, you're stuck in 70s-90s era thinking, which has so perpetuated Western media that it seems normal by now. Have you stopped to think that one reason Western countries, let alone Japan, has a dismal level of childbirths and a cultural diminishing of marriage's significance, is because you've conditioned girls (and others who think they're benefiting them) for decades to think they can have it all, that career and self-gratification can substitute for family? That choices don't matter?

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...Blank Fang, are you okay? I'm beginning to get a little worried about you.
Because you are projecting way too much right now. You're talking to me like I'm some kind of industry with a secret agenda, and I'm just one person. I'm not even a parent. I have absolutely no influence over others, and even if I did, the last thing I'd want is to condition or brainwash people into thinking anything. I'm not sure who hurt you or what's got you so upset, but whoever has been "conditioning girls for decades", it's not me bro. There was a lot to unpack in what you just said, and I feel like you just released a lot strong feelings you've been holding back.

Black Fang said:

What are you talking about? 80s heroes if not 70s as well had plenty of motivation besides "just because". It's the later shows of the recent two decades that more and more have no real purpose beyond "We're heroes because it's in the script".

If you want to discuss a franchise where there are no real motivations for the heroes, look at Harry Potter.

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But that is exactly what the heroes were in JAKQ. They tell you right in the first episode Spade Ace is good at everything and he wants to fight Crime because he saw them be evil. He's no different than Lucky, Ban, or Daigo (Kyoryu), he just doesn't scream like he forgot to take his meds.

BTW, you're talking to the wrong person about Harry Potter. While I enjoyed the movies, I couldn't care less about the franchise.

Aoi Kurenai said:

it's literally just telling girls they're on the same level
as guys.

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Why are you assuming that the different levels are "unequal", much less that the "boys' level" is higher, or that all girls even want to do all of the "boy stuff" media, et al say they're supposed to like or else they're "stupid"?

Aoi Kurenai said:

Like that's actually hella gross that you see things that way if that's what you're implying.

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Is there a reason you said that like a child instead of like an adult?

SamuraiEchidna said:

. You're talking to me like I'm some kind of industry with a secret agenda, and I'm just one person.

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Sure, you're just one person. One person like many who's accepted this messaging such that it just seems natural you don't give ii a second thought, and repeat it like it's the most obvious thing in the world.

SamuraiEchidna said:

I'm not sure who hurt you or what's got you so upset, but whoever has been "conditioning girls for decades", it's not me bro. There was a lot to unpack in what you just said, and I feel like you just released a lot strong feelings you've been holding back.

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Patronization doesn't become you. What is annoying me is years of seeing sci-fi/fantasy fans obsessing over "Girls have to be like boys in every way because, well, 'girl stuff' is lame and boys get to be awesome", completely oblivious to what they're actually saying and how warped their view of the world is. From whining about the lack of female Riders, to throwing a fit over ShinkenPink or Malika, the fandom has shown itself to be so screwed up in its understanding of reality probably because they don't live in it or read/watch much outside of the genre.

No one:

Absolutely no one:

Black Fang said:

...You're stuck in 70s-90s era thinking...
...You've conditioned girls (and others who think they're benefiting them) for decades...
Patronization doesn't become you.
From whining about the lack of female Riders, to throwing a fit over ShinkenPink or Malika, the fandom has shown itself to be so screwed up in its understanding of reality...

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Me:
...Are we still talking about Ryusoulger episode 17? Because I feel like we've gone way off topic.

Black Fang, I'm not a therapist in any way, but I am worried. I'm not patronizing you, just genuinely worried. In fact, I completely reject any labels/accusations you've been throwing my way. If you're ready to take a deep breathe and start over slowly and calmly, if you're ready to talk about this without trying to right-fight or trying to win, I'd be willing to talk about this with you privately over a Personal Message. I'll acknowledge whatever points you want to make; I'll expand on mine and hopefully you'll acknowledge them too. Maybe we can come to an understanding. But if you just want to reject whatever I have to say and be the only one with the "right mindset", then I'm going to have to politely disengage (agree to disagree); because I really don't want to be emotionally connected to this right now and I'd rather stay mostly on topic for the rest of this thread.

That's all I have to say. Take it as you will.