DemiGomoramon
Lurker
I'd fly to Japan to see that.
The crossover everyone wants......
- Thread starter Zindaku
- Start date
I'd fly to Japan to see that.
Shynilyte
Shyni
Eh, I found it pretty appropriate. Ultramen are bizarre alien lifeforms, possibly weirder than other species due to not being composed of matter. Yet there's something that makes them human in some way, like their morality and such. Actually being descended from humans makes that a little more believable. I guess that makes them the opposite of say, Cthulhu and co. who are powerful cosmic entities whose existence is itself bizarre, and they don't really care about humankind, or things like good and evil.
Taro's entire backstory and origin and Ultraseven's place (or lack thereof) in the timeline are not "mini story errors". Certainly no more minor than anything from the Zero films, continuity-wise. Actually, the fact that Seven's boss didn't agree with the idea of helping humans, there's pretty much no way someone like him could be in a leadership position in the main universe. There's also vague stuff with the backstory for Max, apparently.
1. How does characters losing a fight somehow cause continuity issues, or ruin them in any way? It's not like we had heroes suddenly being unheroic. Especially with the monsters, since these probably weren't the original Birdon, Antlar, etc, just guys who look like them.
2. No, the alternate universes are still alternate. Ultra Galaxy didn't retcon Showa Ultras into the backtory of the Tiga/Dyna universe or anything (that was already there, actually. See: Tiga episode 49) And the following movie establishes Nexus as being in a different universe too. As for the dimension-crossing, it has been established as possible before Zero's films had it actually happening, at least as far back as the Tiga, Dyna & Gaia movie. Superior Ultraman 8 Brothers discussed the idea of a multiverse existing. Since Mebius and Gaia crossed from one of the TV universes into the "real" world, it's not a big jump to say that a character can move across different TV and movie universes.
Yes well, you wrote
Deriding a character specifically for lack of depth, then right afterwards praising a character with even less depth suddenly makes the lack of depth sound like it's not inherently bad, is what I'm saying
Okay, while I can understand your criticisms regarding Belial (although I personally don't mind his gimmickness, since the Zero films aren't something I watch for great writing), I thought the scene made it pretty clear Zetton wasn't their leader.
Well, the Giga Battle Nizer itself (which Belial was entirely reliant on during the first movie) was pretty much established during the last Mebius Gaiden. It was capable of swatting around four Ultramen even without anybody actually controlling it, not to mention it was powerful enough to restore the Emperor. But yeah, Belial himself didn't really get directly established before the movie, besides by implication through Reiblood.
By Kotaro you mean Black, right, not New Den-O?
Also, why Gamu and Kougami?
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Zindaku
New Member
Yes I do mean Black. What other Rider series Susumu Kurobe stared in?
Also Kougami's actor,Takashi Ukaji, played Seiichiro Tsutsumi, cheif of X.I.G., Gamu's organization. It would be pretty funny if the both of them passed by each other and saluted, and a moment later, they both wondered why they did that.
Burkion
SLICE
The continuity of the Showa Era is pretty insane if you look at it hard enough, just due to UltraSeven. But, in support of Ryth, the continuity of it as of Return of Ultraman is kept pretty consistent, the odd movie about Taro's life as a kid aside. (which REALLY makes no sense given any kind of context)
If you take Return of Ultraman's continuity alone and assume that some alternate versions of Seven happened, it works pretty flawlessly. You'd just have to make up a lot of stuff. (and ignore all the stuff that puts Ultraman in the 90s)
With that said, Ultra Galaxy doesn't really screw up continuity either.
The various Ultras who are hanging around don't HAVE to be the real ones-we know that there's at least two different Cosmos running around, and we DO have a documented case of Alt Universe Ultra Bros and 90s Trio. So there just being random Ultras in the main universe that look like the alt universe Ultras from their own projects works for me.
Dyna specifically comes from another dimension entirely.
The biggest mystery with Ultra Galaxy The Movie is Zero himself.
Who was his mother? Why didn't he know who his father was? Why didn't Seven want him to know?
I wish they would have actually explained (or in the first case, shown) this stuff, but whatever.
Ultra Galaxy The Movie was a kind of excuse plot based on the king of Excuse Plots the series.
At least it was better than the All Rider films and kept the focus tight.
Zero is a pretty big Sue though. Seven would not approve of your frequent plot devices, kiddo.
If you take Return of Ultraman's continuity alone and assume that some alternate versions of Seven happened, it works pretty flawlessly. You'd just have to make up a lot of stuff. (and ignore all the stuff that puts Ultraman in the 90s)
With that said, Ultra Galaxy doesn't really screw up continuity either.
The various Ultras who are hanging around don't HAVE to be the real ones-we know that there's at least two different Cosmos running around, and we DO have a documented case of Alt Universe Ultra Bros and 90s Trio. So there just being random Ultras in the main universe that look like the alt universe Ultras from their own projects works for me.
Dyna specifically comes from another dimension entirely.
The biggest mystery with Ultra Galaxy The Movie is Zero himself.
Who was his mother? Why didn't he know who his father was? Why didn't Seven want him to know?
I wish they would have actually explained (or in the first case, shown) this stuff, but whatever.
Ultra Galaxy The Movie was a kind of excuse plot based on the king of Excuse Plots the series.
At least it was better than the All Rider films and kept the focus tight.
Zero is a pretty big Sue though. Seven would not approve of your frequent plot devices, kiddo.
Daikamonohashi
Member
There is so much wrong with Mr Rhythmic's posts that I don't even know where to begin. Sheebus.
I may repeat some things that've already been covered but I'll try to keep it simple:
• The origin for the Land of Light as portrayed in Ultra Galaxy Legends has been the canon origin for the Ultramen ever since 1973 when it was established in Ultraman Taro and it's been a staple of most Showa-canon material since then. The Ultraman Story 0 manga, for example, revolves around this origin. Also, the "sentient bodies of light" thing was only really cemented in Tiga. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure there are moments in the Showa series where Ultras bleed and various guide books have diagrams depicting the Ultras as having very physical anatomy.
• Galaxy Legends essentially did nothing to 'muck up' the previously established lore. More like it pulled it out of the closet and rolled around in it like a gleeful child.
• The idea that the Showa canon has anything resembling tight continuity is fucking hilarious. Funniest thing I've read tonight, maybe. How's this for tight continuity? Ultraman takes place in the 90s, Ultra Seven is meant to be an entirely separate series that takes place in (I believe) the 80s, and then Return of Ultraman takes place in the 70s and yet makes itself out to be a sequel series to all the previous series. Then you have the fact that much of the ancillary material surrounding the series was created by various children's magazines who ran wild and published lots of contradicting information that probably still hasn't been totally been sorted out by Tsuburaya, which doesn't really matter because they can still change anything they please on a whim. I think TPC openly laughs at continuity.
• Ultra Galaxy Legends did nothing to negate the alternate realities of the other series and movies. There's a reason we never see Tiga, Nexus, Gaia, etc. amongst the residents of the Land of Light. Additionally, Zero the Movie shows the multiverse on film and Saga cements that idea further still.
• Ultraman crossing over with Tiga was basically a joke episode and I honestly kind of hate seeing it cited as evidence of Tiga and Ultraman inhabiting the same continuity. It's a fun little one-off and nothing more.
• This is getting into opinion now but while Belial is in no way my favorite villain, I think he's established extremely effectively in the opening minutes of Galaxy Legends. I don't really know what more you NEED to establish him as a menacing villain. I mean, I know there are a thousand other routes but "pure hellfury unleashed upon the helpless mortals," works pretty well in my book and it is well-suited to the breathless nature of the film. ****'s going down, we'll explain later. I would also argue that the classic Ultras put up a better fight against Belial than they did against Tyrant, where they essentially used the exact same plot device of taking out previous heroes to establish the threat level of the new villain.
• I've never personally seen Zero as being that overpowered, mostly because his battle is coming immediately after years of hard, hard training with LEO, the hardass of hardasses amongst the Ultras, and he just learned about his father's identity AND watched him die right in front of his eyes in a matter of minutes. You know the thing where a mother can summon the strength to lift a car off of her trapped child in a moment of panic? Yeah, that's how I've always viewed that scene and I think it makes it all the more dramatic for my money.
Ultra Galaxy Legends IS a bit mindless from a viewer's perspective but it's rather brilliant as far as how it's actually made. Some of the tightest goddamned pacing I've ever seen in a tokusatsu movie. My preference lies with Super 8 Ultra Brothers and Zero the Movie but I'm rather pleased that Legends exists and I wouldn't change a thing about it.
Oh, that's a lie. There's no reason they couldn't have used SOME physical sets in that movie. Oh well.
I may repeat some things that've already been covered but I'll try to keep it simple:
• The origin for the Land of Light as portrayed in Ultra Galaxy Legends has been the canon origin for the Ultramen ever since 1973 when it was established in Ultraman Taro and it's been a staple of most Showa-canon material since then. The Ultraman Story 0 manga, for example, revolves around this origin. Also, the "sentient bodies of light" thing was only really cemented in Tiga. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure there are moments in the Showa series where Ultras bleed and various guide books have diagrams depicting the Ultras as having very physical anatomy.
• Galaxy Legends essentially did nothing to 'muck up' the previously established lore. More like it pulled it out of the closet and rolled around in it like a gleeful child.
• The idea that the Showa canon has anything resembling tight continuity is fucking hilarious. Funniest thing I've read tonight, maybe. How's this for tight continuity? Ultraman takes place in the 90s, Ultra Seven is meant to be an entirely separate series that takes place in (I believe) the 80s, and then Return of Ultraman takes place in the 70s and yet makes itself out to be a sequel series to all the previous series. Then you have the fact that much of the ancillary material surrounding the series was created by various children's magazines who ran wild and published lots of contradicting information that probably still hasn't been totally been sorted out by Tsuburaya, which doesn't really matter because they can still change anything they please on a whim. I think TPC openly laughs at continuity.
• Ultra Galaxy Legends did nothing to negate the alternate realities of the other series and movies. There's a reason we never see Tiga, Nexus, Gaia, etc. amongst the residents of the Land of Light. Additionally, Zero the Movie shows the multiverse on film and Saga cements that idea further still.
• Ultraman crossing over with Tiga was basically a joke episode and I honestly kind of hate seeing it cited as evidence of Tiga and Ultraman inhabiting the same continuity. It's a fun little one-off and nothing more.
• This is getting into opinion now but while Belial is in no way my favorite villain, I think he's established extremely effectively in the opening minutes of Galaxy Legends. I don't really know what more you NEED to establish him as a menacing villain. I mean, I know there are a thousand other routes but "pure hellfury unleashed upon the helpless mortals," works pretty well in my book and it is well-suited to the breathless nature of the film. ****'s going down, we'll explain later. I would also argue that the classic Ultras put up a better fight against Belial than they did against Tyrant, where they essentially used the exact same plot device of taking out previous heroes to establish the threat level of the new villain.
• I've never personally seen Zero as being that overpowered, mostly because his battle is coming immediately after years of hard, hard training with LEO, the hardass of hardasses amongst the Ultras, and he just learned about his father's identity AND watched him die right in front of his eyes in a matter of minutes. You know the thing where a mother can summon the strength to lift a car off of her trapped child in a moment of panic? Yeah, that's how I've always viewed that scene and I think it makes it all the more dramatic for my money.
Ultra Galaxy Legends IS a bit mindless from a viewer's perspective but it's rather brilliant as far as how it's actually made. Some of the tightest goddamned pacing I've ever seen in a tokusatsu movie. My preference lies with Super 8 Ultra Brothers and Zero the Movie but I'm rather pleased that Legends exists and I wouldn't change a thing about it.
Oh, that's a lie. There's no reason they couldn't have used SOME physical sets in that movie. Oh well.
Shynilyte
Shyni
I don't think he starred in anything else, just wanted to make sure.
Huh. We should also have Raia/Tezuka meet Agul/Fujimya, then.
So, would you say that the whole "warriors of light" thing is more metaphorical than literal?
Yeah, I wasn't completely serius when I brought it up. I'm not really sure how that episode could possibly be taken in canon.
Yeah, Tyrant was a lot like that too. Didn't they also use him to show off how strong Taro was?
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Allio
DAIMON PAWNCH
with what little Ultraman I have seen... nope
Burkion
SLICE
What Ultraman have you seen, if I may ask?
Because the answer to that is, honestly, yes. Ultraman, the franchise, is held in much higher regard than Kamen Rider, seen more like Japan's Star Trek than Kamen Rider, which is usually regarded as just a kids show.
This isn't true for every SERIES, of course, but generally Ultraman is more respected as an entity due to having better writing and effects and production.
This isn't saying that Kamen Rider is worse than Ultraman, as that's purely subjective, but it is the simple fact that Ultraman is more highly regarded in Japan.
However I doubt that, if such a crossover did occur, their team would be allowed to have the reins simply because Toei is a much larger company.
Because the answer to that is, honestly, yes. Ultraman, the franchise, is held in much higher regard than Kamen Rider, seen more like Japan's Star Trek than Kamen Rider, which is usually regarded as just a kids show.
This isn't true for every SERIES, of course, but generally Ultraman is more respected as an entity due to having better writing and effects and production.
This isn't saying that Kamen Rider is worse than Ultraman, as that's purely subjective, but it is the simple fact that Ultraman is more highly regarded in Japan.
However I doubt that, if such a crossover did occur, their team would be allowed to have the reins simply because Toei is a much larger company.
Daikamonohashi
Member
It's definitely been made literal since the advent of Tiga (look at how both Nexus and Mebius "bleed") but yeah, back in the day it was more that they were simply warriors from the Land of Light.
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