Emergency Meetings At Marvel?

[ryuuseipro]

Yeah, but that's Batman and Superman! Marvel runs the whole gambit of their characters! :redface2:

I'd say the Death of Superman story was the genesis of it all (and pretty much were I drew the line with DC), and that got even more attention than, say, Batman: The Killing Joke. To follow it up, they break Batman's back for a while, and that gets more attention than their lower-key efforts. And DC's had their share of desperation in the past few years.

For Marvel, it's the whole kit n' caboodle. Spidey gets mauled by a villain, he unmasks himself, they kill Mary Jane, kill Captain America, make Rawhide Kid gay, etc., etc. Looking back, it's going to look laughable.

Neither company wants to come up with new characters (either because they have no faith in them, or other more independent companies like Image and Dark Horse have dibs on them), so they resort to either "shaking them up" (by putting a PC person in the costume of a secondary character like Green Lantern or Blue Beetle) or, at worst, degrading their own established icons in the most ridiculous ways possible! (Some of these writer/artists especially want these characters to, paraphrasing one of them, "lose everything and never get it back." What good is that?)

Get the picture?

 

[NAND NOR]

Look at your post. Marvel's Main priority is... publicity?

What the hell? didn't it used to be telling compelling, interesting yet easy to understand stories with a main character everyone could root for?

They want to make money and keep the Spider-Man name (as well as their other character's) in the public eye. At the end of the day, they are a corporation and nothing more.

 

[Skyknight]

I'd say the Death of Superman story was the genesis of it all (and pretty much were I drew the line with DC), and that got even more attention than, say, Batman: The Killing Joke. To follow it up, they break Batman's back for a while, and that gets more attention than their lower-key efforts. And DC's had their share of desperation in the past few years.

For Marvel, it's the whole kit n' caboodle. Spidey gets mauled by a villain, he unmasks himself, they kill Mary Jane, kill Captain America, make Rawhide Kid gay, etc., etc. Looking back, it's going to look laughable.

Neither company wants to come up with new characters (either because they have no faith in them, or other more independent companies like Image and Dark Horse have dibs on them), so they resort to either "shaking them up" (by putting a PC person in the costume of a secondary character like Green Lantern or Blue Beetle) or, at worst, degrading their own established icons in the most ridiculous ways possible! (Some of these writer/artists especially want these characters to, paraphrasing one of them, "lose everything and never get it back." What good is that?)

Get the picture?

Whenever Marvel and DC ever do create new characters now, they prefer to have them creator-run, which is what should be. Other companie's titles like Preacher, Watchmen, Sandman, and Strangers In Paradise, have all endured despite having ended years ago

 

[CallMeRotten]

Maybe I will finally see a stop to there being a new Wolverine series/cameo every week I love Logan too but yeesh.

 

[ryuuseipro]

Whenever Marvel and DC ever do create new characters now, they prefer to have them creator-run, which is what should be. Other companie's titles like Preacher, Watchmen, Sandman, and Strangers In Paradise, have all endured despite having ended years ago

True. I'm also talking about stuff like Spawn and Hellboy, even Frank Miller's own stuff. The list goes on and on and on. Creators who own their characters should stick to their guns.

 

[MattComix]

You've just about spelled out what I hate about current superhero comics by both companies. I've discussed it all before.

DC has its own problems, and they are LEGION, but I agree that they have more class, relatively speaking, mostly because they're under the restraint of Warner Bros. and the licensing folks. At least that's the way I see it.

Marvel, by comparison, is absolutely self-indulgent. Since they're run by self-indulgent fanboys, they can only MARKET to self-indulgent fanboys. Marketing to children, or just anyone who wants a quick, entertaining read, has become a lost art. The stories are absolutely unreadable (since they follow an incredibly convoluted continuity) and the company has whored its own characters to get desperate media attention, even more than DC has (and either way, all these attempts end up looking like the cynical jokes that they are). Taking that into consideration, I'd say, DC has it better than Marvel does.

BTW, readers, don't think I'm trying to offend fanboys (you know who you are). I know they're not all like the people running both companies (including Quesada). We know better.

The same sense of class and restraint that has Black Adam ripping peoples guts out on camera? Or that has Dr. Light as a rapist? Not to say I disagree with you because we've talked comics some before and seem to have much of the same criticisms but under the DiDio-Johns regime I would have to say that whatever higher standard DC might have had over Marvel has basically been obliterated.

 

[JustAnotherBlueRanger]

They want to make money and keep the Spider-Man name (as well as their other character's) in the public eye. At the end of the day, they are a corporation and nothing more.

and they were making money hand over fist BEFORE they adopted this current business approach.

Under Joey Q. they've abandoned that approach in favor of smash N grab and are trying to milk the franchises for all their worth RIGHT AWAY.

To tangent slightly, one of the failings of Saban's Power Rangers was in hindsight, his decision to make as much money off the series right away. And I don't mean strike the iron is hot, I mean, he literally drained almost every bit of cash from it, early on. I really do wonder if, he had the patience and perhaps the setup to take a longer view approach and develop the series slowly like Toei has done.

What Marvel's doing now is essentially slash and burn for more crash before moving onto the next section of their history. Right now, that doesn't mean too much. But give them another 5, maybe ten years of doing this and it's going to matter a whole lot, not just to them but the whole industry.

And yes DC and the other companies do this as well but as the saying used to go, "As Marvel goes, the industry goes."

 

[ryuuseipro]

The same sense of class and restraint that has Black Adam ripping peoples guts out on camera? Or that has Dr. Light as a rapist? Not to say I disagree with you because we've talked comics some before and seem to have much of the same criticisms but under the DiDio-Johns regime I would have to say that whatever higher standard DC might have had over Marvel has basically been obliterated.

The above stuff is exactly what I've been complaining about DC, in fact. (Don't forget Superboy graphically mutilating his dog Krypto and all of his fellow Legion of Superheroes members in a recent comic! Not to mention ancillary Justice League members doing something shocking to Dr. Light that Batman disapproved of, leading to their brainwashing him!)

Like I said, DC still has their major share of problems, and the stuff you described is just the tip of the iceberg. (I also don't like Dan Didio any more than the next person does.) Both companies, DC and Marvel, are run by self-indulgent fanboys (namely Didio and Quesada) who can only truly market to their type (and take the superhero genre WAAAY too seriously), and completely forget and/or disregard how to market to everyone else, especially children (as both companies were originally intended to do).

At least Image and Dark Horse don't kid themselves. They were aiming for the older crowd (teens and above) from the beginning. They used to be the anti-DC/Marvel, too!

 

[Skyknight]

True. I'm also talking about stuff like Spawn and Hellboy, even Frank Miller's own stuff. The list goes on and on and on. Creators who own their characters should stick to their guns.

I think Marvel's flagship characters would benefit far more being "creator-run", examples of this being succesful and progressive are Frank Miller's "All-Star Batman" (I'm aware it doesnt have it's fans, but I love it), and Bendis "Ultimate Spider-Man"

Tom DeFalco however, pioneered that concept ten years ago when he launched MC2 and Spider-Girl, which despite it's low sales and cult audience, is more true to the Spider-Man mythology. I know DeFalco isnt a highly regarded editor, but it's a shame that he is one the few veterans at Marvel, a guy who served and succeded Shooter, and his immensely rich, fresh universe is left to him to indulge with whist the other idiots at the Bullpen crush the Ultimate line and continue with a universe that cant, and wont, progress any further

Idiots.