Kamen Rider Hibiki: Quietly being the Worst Heisei Series along with Decade

[Aoi Kurenai]

I wasn't saying I dislike the new stuff, but I do think the style has changed considerably. Kabuto changed the look to modern digital, Den-O lined up the now ridiculous form changes as standard, W brought in the collectibles, and now the writing is the only thing that varies.

While they might have become standard with Den-O, a lot of people at the time felt they were a call back to Kuuga and Agito. Up to that point the norm had been a Rider with a final form and maybe an intermediate form. It only stuck with Den-O because of how well the toys sold in comparison to the lackluster sales from the Blade~Kabuto era.

 

[Dr Kain]

That being said if you insist on directly comparing modern Rider to something like Black or Kuuga, etc.. Of course you're just going to be upset but you're also going to miss out on the many things that modern Kamen Rider seasons have done really well.

I never said they have to be like Black or Kuuga. In fact, I think Kuuga was a meh series overall due to its poor ending. Agito was a much stronger show.

I just don't like the more childish direction Toei has taken with these series. Drive and Ghost are just a joke to me. Toei has found a safe zone with Kamen Rider and is now sticking to it. It has nothing to do with how it compares to the older series. Hell, if it did, I would hate W-Fourze. However, why should I watch a new series I find mediocre when I can rewatch a series I find to be superior and vastly more entertaining?

We've gotten some of the most popular characters in the franchise, it's more popular overseas than ever, the sound editing is exponentially superior, the fight choreography is easily as good as many of the older series, we've gotten significantly more unique and characterful suit designs, bugs are no longer a required motif freeing artists up to experiment more, etc..

There's still a lot to enjoy about KR; and I get it that it being more transparent in regards to its primary demographic can be off-putting at times, but there's also a lot of things that have gotten better or continued being good. Just my two cents.

Things have gotten better in some areas, and worse in others. The story telling is just not what it was because it seems like the gimmicks are hindering the series lately more than they are helping. The gimmick in OOO is my favorite gimmick of the entire franchise. It is fun and was used well. Ghost and Drive seem to get a new big upgrade every other episode, which makes the satisfaction of the "ultimate" upgrade halfway through the series no longer a big deal. WHile you are right about sound editing getting better, I disagree about the fight choreography because there is too much CGI being used. The fights look fake because the monsters look fake. Yeah, the suits of old could get really goofy, but they were there. The stunts were real because they were actually battling each other. There is no one actually battling a CGI monster because the monster is not there.

 

[Aoi Kurenai]

Things have gotten better in some areas, and worse in others. The story telling is just not what it was because it seems like the gimmicks are hindering the series lately more than they are helping. The gimmick in OOO is my favorite gimmick of the entire franchise. It is fun and was used well. Ghost and Drive seem to get a new big upgrade every other episode, which makes the satisfaction of the "ultimate" upgrade halfway through the series no longer a big deal. WHile you are right about sound editing getting better, I disagree about the fight choreography because there is too much CGI being used. The fights look fake because the monsters look fake. Yeah, the suits of old could get really goofy, but they were there. The stunts were real because they were actually battling each other. There is no one actually battling a CGI monster because the monster is not there.

The idea with Ghost is that the show is being broken up into arcs. Those new, stronger forms are meant to punctuate the idea that threats are escalating. This is exactly the same thing Gaim did by giving Kouta Jimba and Kachidoki before he finally managed Kiwami later on in the show. I think this approach, when done well, is great. It makes those random forms actually matter and mean something to the show. Ghost has been doing this much better than something like Wizard where the Dragon forms came in very early and you rarely felt there was little if any escalation going on at that point. (in pays off at the very end of the series with Fueki but as you're watching it early on, it does seem like just a poorly done toy shill)

Also, what are you talking about with people not fighting each other? That's still the majority of what a fight scene is. The monster suits are physical props. Yeah, from time to time you get those giant CGI monsters but those are few and far between. Again, meant to happen when there's a heightened sense of danger. I mean, yeah, I agree that sometimes production overuses CGI (that three way battle in Shinkenger comes to mind) but it's still a lot of hand to hand fighting.

 

[Toku Prime]

The big question is, would Amemiya have been willing to write an entire series? If not, that's a point for Urobuchi IMO (and a reason to cry more over the fact we didn't get a new Rider series in the 90's).

Well Amemiya isn't a writer so probably not lol. He's a character designer turned director who likes to be involved with all the creative decisions. Modern Toei hero shows tend to have those decisions made by the producer and the writer's job is to weave all those elements into a script.

Amemiya doesn't seem to have anything against Toei. IIRC he contributed some monster designs to Kamen Rider Decade. But the guy has enough of a reputation that he can persuade people to invest in his own projects (most notably Garo) instead of having to be an employee working on a franchise with all the sponsor requirements and restrictions on time and budget that come with them. So he understandably makes the stuff he wants to make instead.

 

[DaikaijuSokogeki!]

Amemiya doesn't seem to have anything against Toei. IIRC he contributed some monster designs to Kamen Rider Decade.

Just to clarify, I believe he was attached to design GACKT's Riderman for Kamen Rider Decade The Movie: All Riders Vs. Dai-Shocker. However, the suit wasn't ready in time so only the arm was used.

 

[Shougo B'Stard]

Just to clarify, I believe he was attached to design GACKT's Riderman for Kamen Rider Decade The Movie: All Riders Vs. Dai-Shocker. However, the suit wasn't ready in time so only the arm was used.

Amemiya designed the monster that was used in the RX World episode. One of the only cool things Decade did was to try and get past monster designers back to design the new monster that went along with the show they worked on; for example, they got Yutaka Izubuchi to design the new Unknown for the Agito World episodes.

 

[Dr Kain]

The idea with Ghost is that the show is being broken up into arcs. Those new, stronger forms are meant to punctuate the idea that threats are escalating. This is exactly the same thing Gaim did by giving Kouta Jimba and Kachidoki before he finally managed Kiwami later on in the show. I think this approach, when done well, is great. It makes those random forms actually matter and mean something to the show. Ghost has been doing this much better than something like Wizard where the Dragon forms came in very early and you rarely felt there was little if any escalation going on at that point. (in pays off at the very end of the series with Fueki but as you're watching it early on, it does seem like just a poorly done toy shill)

Also, what are you talking about with people not fighting each other? That's still the majority of what a fight scene is. The monster suits are physical props. Yeah, from time to time you get those giant CGI monsters but those are few and far between. Again, meant to happen when there's a heightened sense of danger. I mean, yeah, I agree that sometimes production overuses CGI (that three way battle in Shinkenger comes to mind) but it's still a lot of hand to hand fighting.

Another issue I have with Ghost is he has 99 days to get 15 souls or he truly dies, but there is not suspense or tension with it because we know all is going to be all right in the end. It is a stupid premise that shows how poorly written and rushed this series is.

 

[SquidKing]

Sorry man, that wasn't directed at you at all, I feel you are quite fair with your criticisms in regards to Rider. My comments were more directed at Dr. Kain.

/Slowly pulls off rubber mask.

I WAS DOCTOR KANE THE WHOLE TIME.

 

[SquidKing]

The idea with Ghost is that the show is being broken up into arcs. Those new, stronger forms are meant to punctuate the idea that threats are escalating. This is exactly the same thing Gaim did by giving Kouta Jimba and Kachidoki before he finally managed Kiwami later on in the show. I think this approach, when done well, is great. It makes those random forms actually matter and mean something to the show. Ghost has been doing this much better than something like Wizard where the Dragon forms came in very early and you rarely felt there was little if any escalation going on at that point. (in pays off at the very end of the series with Fueki but as you're watching it early on, it does seem like just a poorly done toy shill)

Also, what are you talking about with people not fighting each other? That's still the majority of what a fight scene is. The monster suits are physical props. Yeah, from time to time you get those giant CGI monsters but those are few and far between. Again, meant to happen when there's a heightened sense of danger. I mean, yeah, I agree that sometimes production overuses CGI (that three way battle in Shinkenger comes to mind) but it's still a lot of hand to hand fighting.

Whoa whoa whoa. Gaim was in arcs, but they were good, self-contained, and significantly different from each other. Let's not going calling parallels just because there's a segmentation of the story. Ghost hasn't changed at all, in my eyes, other than him becoming a better Rider. The difference between the first and second arc of Gaim were almost like two different kinds of shows, and by the end, it was literally a totally different show. Ghost is going to be like Drive, I'm sure, where it ends at a slightly happier version of where it started.

 

[ferosaki]

And once again, overarching story like gaim is what attracts and interest more people than a bland formulaic arc


If any of you in japan for the last 20 years or something, could you describe how was the reception of kids back then regarding the horrors of kuuga, agito and ryuki ? I thought this because if i place myself as kid watching this show, comparing early heisei and post decade, i too would be frightened to watch the earlier show..
But how could it be a massive hit even with the kids?? Is it because of the long hiatus or what?