Gokaiger; Goseiger - 199 Hero Great Battle - Discussion Thread

[Dr Kain]

He's supposed to be the original villain from GoRanger, just with a censored name and remade suit.

Interesting. To be honest though, I never really knew his name. However, is it ever explained then how he came back from the dead? I mean, I'm assuming the GoRangers blew him up in their final episode.

 

[Beast King]

Just another plot hole i guess, They always cover it up with "I have come back to to take revenge on...."

 

[NeonZ]

Interesting. To be honest though, I never really knew his name. However, is it ever explained then how he came back from the dead? I mean, I'm assuming the GoRangers blew him up in their final episode.

He just says that he returned from hell due to the anger of all enemies killed by the Super Sentai. Personally, in general, I didn't like the way they handled him here. He came off as a random monster of the week, rather than someone of relevance to the franchise. I guess part of the problem is bringing him back in a movie that barely featured the Goranger.

 

[Lynxara]

He's supposed to be the original villain from GoRanger, just with a censored name and remade suit.

I don't think the name change was a matter of censorship, but wanting to specify that Black Cross King is technically a different character to explain why he doesn't have the same personality and to excuse how easily he'll be defeated in comparison to the original Fuhrer. If anything it was probably meant as proof against fanboyish continuity nit-picking.

(I mean, if the point of it was censorship, I doubt Black Cross King would have dialog in the movie where he bluntly declares that he was once known as the Black Cross Fuhrer.)

The resurrected Brajila in that movie gives an extremely similar speech that basically establishes why he's going to be a lot dumber and more easily beaten in this film. He's a Brajila, but he's not the original Braila. So he sticks close enough to the movie reference to do his fight in an office building, but all of the character's original psychology is just gone.

He just says that he returned from hell due to the anger of all enemies killed by the Super Sentai. Personally, in general, I didn't like the way they handled him here. He came off as a random monster of the week, rather than someone of relevance to the franchise.

Black Cross King is absolutely written in the spirit of the "Monsters of the Week" who show up in Versus movies. I don't think he's meant to be anything of significance to the franchise or anything more special than that. He's probably only a Goranger reference to set up the introduction of GorenGokai-Oh and the giant robot beatdown later in the movie.

To be honest, I liked the explanation they used for how Black Cross Fuhrer resurrected as Black Cross King because it's really in flavor for 70's tokusatsu. Back then villains got their powers from Evil as an absolute concept and a sufficiently bad baddie resurrecting through sheer hatred of his enemies wasn't out of tone at all.

I'd compare it to how Decade used its version of Apollo Geist, to set up an intentional clash of tone between the Showa-style villain and the Heisei-style heroes. For a historical series, it's a good way of showing how things have changed, while also getting to trot out some tropes that are perfectly good but have fallen into disuse.

 

[NeonZ]

The resurrected Brajila in that movie gives an extremely similar speech that basically establishes why he's going to be a lot dumber and more easily beaten in this film. He's a Brajila, but he's not the original Braila. So he sticks close enough to the movie reference to do his fight in an office building, but all of the character's original psychology is just gone.

I don't think the movie really supports your view that they were meant to be fakes. Both Brajira and Black Cross King refer to returning from hell and also their past. In the case of Brajira, it just seems like he was talking about his title changing, not that he was just a copy or something like that. The Black Cross King never even says anything like "I'm not the Black Cross Fuhrer", unlike Brajira. The title is acknowledged as his past name once and that's it.

(I mean, if the point of it was censorship, I doubt Black Cross King would have dialog in the movie where he bluntly declares that he was once known as the Black Cross Fuhrer.)

Well, as it stands, "Fuhrer" is just a minor name drop said once throughout the entire movie. I think that's pretty different from actually keeping his name as "Fuhrer", which would mean a much bigger focus on the movie's script and also even general marketing and magazines.

 

[Lynxara]

I don't think the movie really supports your view that they were meant to be fakes.

That's not my view. My view is that they're meant to be new incarnations of the characters. In short, Black Cross Brajila was once Brajila the Messiah, but now he's different. The resurrection is very strongly implied to have changed them.

In the case of Brajira, it just seems like he was talking about his title changing, not that he was just a copy or something like that.

That is absolutely not the sense of the line. Did you watch the film with subs? If so, which version did you watch? If it was the Over-Time version, then I feel like I could've done something in the editing to make that clearer. The sense of the dialog is just completely unambiguous in the original Japanese, his line is written such that it ends with him flat-out stating that he is not Brajila.It's a fairly difficult concept to get across in English, though.

He's definitely not talking about his title change at all, the line in Japanese is totally wrong for that. He's talking about being a wholly different/changed being. It would be very comparable to how you'd talk about someone changed by reincarnation. English doesn't have a whole lot of great ways to express this since most English-speakers don't actually believe in reincarnation, and therefore don't really talk about it a lot.

I think that's pretty different from actually keeping his name as "Fuhrer", which would mean a much bigger focus on the movie's script and also even general marketing and magazines.

The movie's magazine scans, as I recall, weren't shy at all about mentioning and showing the original Black Cross Fuhrer in explanations of Black Cross King's backstory. I really just don't think censorship is at play here. Culturally, Japan has never had Europe's issues with talking about Nazis, nor the US's recently-developed issues. I think Toei probably just wanted to make a cool new suit instead of remaking one that used the old design.

 

[Seigi]

To be honest, I liked the explanation they used for how Black Cross Fuhrer resurrected as Black Cross King because it's really in flavor for 70's tokusatsu. Back then villains got their powers from Evil as an absolute concept and a sufficiently bad baddie resurrecting through sheer hatred of his enemies wasn't out of tone at all.

I loved that, that was just so badass. And it's a good trope to use with the heroes as well. Like with Gai Yuki, and how Abarekiller came back to life in the Abaranger V.S Dekaranger movie simply by being badass, lol.

 

[Forever Knight]

, and how Abarekiller came back to life in the Abaranger V.S Dekaranger movie simply by being badass, lol.

Heaven sent him down much like Black Condor, perhaps Mikoto won a card game.

 

[Shougo B'Stard]

Mikoto was revived because of the villain of the movie -- he was trying to revive Dezumozoria, but got Mikoto instead.

 

[NeonZ]

In short, Black Cross Brajila was once Brajila the Messiah, but now he's different. The resurrection is very strongly implied to have changed them.

That's similar to what I was trying to say. Brajira gives the impression that he has changed, not that he's an entirely unrelated person. I thought you were saying that the villains in this movie were just copies or phantoms with no direct connection to the originals, in spite of taking their form/names. I was just saying that I saw no basis for that view.