Uh... what does Decade 31 have to do with All Riders?

[Black Fang]

Like briefly mentioned in the first episode and elaborated in the final one and Movie Wars, Decade needed to recover his powers, kill Riders representing each series and then die himself to stop the fusion of worlds, with everything getting reborn afterwards. The fusion of worlds wasn't a Dai-Shocker plot it was a natural event (in the show's context, caused by Decade's existence itself, from a meta-level, it's a reference to people forgetting shows that were finished).

How does that work? And what was DaiShocker's goal if not to connect the Worlds?

In the tv finale, Wataru (adult) returns after the worlds continue to be destroyed and then tells Tsukasa that his actions were mistaken, forcing him to fight against himself and the other Riders.

So he thought he was saving Worlds by helping the Riders but was in fact making things worse? Then what were Natsuki's visions about?

Even if you don't like the idea, we saw the Diend and Nega Worlds, we also saw Tsukasa's world in the Vs Dai-Shocker movie. If the Showa Riders weren't there, it's pretty obvious we'd just have gotten more alternate heisei worlds.

There's nothing saying there had to be more Worlds written in after the Nine were completed.

Like I said, I disagree. Tying crossovers specifically with anniversaries is a mistake in the first place. The show still was mostly about the Heisei Riders, with Showa excluded from important moments of the series outside of Vs Dai-Shocker.

I'm not saying restrict crossovers to anniversaries. But when your hero's name, costume and original premise refer to 10 years, you have to stick to that.

Not only the suits, but the themes of the alternate worlds also attempted to follow the original series, and there were other homages too. Compared to the previous anniversary show, Kabuto, it was a much more obvious commemoration even it had continued using only the reimaginations and never brought in the real characters.

I'll grant you that it's more obvious. But I liked the little things that Kabuto did, like calling out attacks and the 4/1/1971 date of the Natives' arrival. This is not to say the show was good either on its own or as an anniversary special, but those things weren't bad.

I'm not disagreeing that bringing back the real actors and characters to replace the roles of the reimaginations would be better, but I'd take reimaginations over bringing back actors just for a meaningless nostalgia fest without letting them actually be heroes again like what Gokaiger did.

Kuuga inspiring Decade by being heroic and optimist even in a dark hour? It could be excellent. Godai popping up to do nothing, or just people talking about how great Godai was in the past? No, thanks. And really, judging by ratings and box office, most people would side with me even if you don't see this kind of view expressed on message boards often.

Well, that's my ideal for a crossover show and I'd love to see a modern show doing that. And, yes, Decade doesn't fulfill it aside from a few rare occasions, but that doesn't mean I must dislike the series.

Then we can at least agree that something closer to Gokaiger or Moebius would have been the ideal for Decade, even if we disagree on whether or not Decade as it turned out was good or bad.

 

[NeonZ]

How does that work? And what was DaiShocker's goal if not to connect the Worlds?

Dai-Shocker's goal was to connect the worlds through bridges to conquest multiple universes - not to destroy the worlds, which is what was happening thanks to the world fusion. They didn't particularly care about saving the worlds either. Well, Tsukasa cared when he was their leader "(Being conquered is better than destroyed, right?), but after he's kicked out they clearly just don't care one way or another.

Anyway, as it turns out, Decade had to fight the Riders, kill them and then die himself to save everything. In the series, we're just told that it's due to Decade's existence itself and the bridges that he created that the worlds are fusing. The explanation given in Movie Wars regarding why the Rider War had to happen like that to save the worlds was pretty meta referential - saying that he had to battle the Riders to make their stories remembered through those battles, and the worlds reborn through those memories would be eternal and wouldn't disappear anymore due to something like that. If you go back to the first episode, they also talked about "stories" and "roles" there - and the official name of the dimensional walls is "aurora curtains", so these meta references were there since the beginning. Basically, they were almost blatantly saying that Decade (the show) exists to make people remember the old shows, not just forget them anymore just because they've ended, something the producer talked about in interviews too.

Anyway, in the end it all rings somewhat hollow though, because Movie Wars has a timeskip from the series finale, skipping most of the Decade vs Rider battles, and in the movie itself the few battles shown are very brief, and only a few Riders appear in that segment. So, really, to someone watching the movie, those battles do nothing to make them "remember" the past Riders. Like I've said before, even though I like Decade, it's definitely not due to its conclusion, which was badly executed in many ways. It isn't even proper fanservice with the way it focused almost exclusively on Decade's cast itself, with very minor participations for the guests (most people didn't even notice that they brought Kenzaki's actor to voice one of the Blades in the movie, due to how small his role was) - even counting suit-only characters.

And then Decade is mostly overshadowed by W during their crossover segment, with W getting a huge CG battle sequence by himself while Decade's alternate Riders and Diend are thrown aside in the background of one scene and disappear from the movie during the entire battle afterwards. I guess that's another reason I'm looking forward to SHT. Even if it's just fanservice, it'll still be a better end note for Decade than Movie Wars 2010.

So he thought he was saving Worlds by helping the Riders but was in fact making things worse? Then what were Natsuki's visions about?

Natsumi's vision was foreseeing the inevitable battle between Decade and the other Riders. Had he stayed as a villain, it'd have happened due to his attempt to conquer the worlds (and it might even have happened before already, although the show never confirms that completely) and with him becoming an hero, it still needed to happen in order to save the worlds. And, no, it's never clearly explained why Natsumi specifically had those visions.

Anyway, although he was technically "making things worse", the worlds were still saved in the end, with everyone killed due to the Rider War and the fusion of worlds returning back to life, and Decade himself also returning due to the friends that he made in his journey remembering him (while he'd have just died in the end if he had gone on to kill the Riders without ever befriending them).

There's nothing saying there had to be more Worlds written in after the Nine were completed.

That depends on how much rewriting you're talking about. As early as episode 3, we get a brief glimpse at a world which seems to be out of the initial 9 worlds set.

Then we can at least agree that something closer to Gokaiger or Moebius would have been the ideal for Decade, even if we disagree on whether or not Decade as it turned out was good or bad.

Moebius, maybe, but not Gokaiger. I enjoyed the series in general, but not due to the homage episodes. Bringing back actors was nice, but I didn't like what was done with them there.

 

[RaiDK]

I'm pretty sure not even the people who actually wrote Decade were 100% on what happens why.

 

[Wing Saber]

I'm pretty sure not even the people who actually wrote Decade were 100% on what happens why.

It was not just the writers but the production crew as well, since this was the first time they ever did a show like this at that time. Which is why Gokaigers look better, however they're were still issues like keeping the older Sentai depowered until the end. Right now Akiba Rangers have taken the best from both Decade & Gokaigers and made it work.

 

[Black Fang]

Dai-Shocker's goal was to connect the worlds through bridges to conquest multiple universes - not to destroy the worlds, which is what was happening thanks to the world fusion. They didn't particularly care about saving the worlds either. Well, Tsukasa cared when he was their leader "(Being conquered is better than destroyed, right?), but after he's kicked out they clearly just don't care one way or another.

When and why was he thrown out? And if DaiShocker wanted to conquer the Worlds, wouldn't they want to keep them intact? Or did they decide to abort the whole operation after the Worlds began collapsing?

Anyway, as it turns out, Decade had to fight the Riders, kill them and then die himself to save everything. In the series, we're just told that it's due to Decade's existence itself and the bridges that he created that the worlds are fusing.

So let me get this straight: Decade as leader opens gateways to conquer Worlds, but when they start fusing he decides to save them and is thrown out of Dai Shocker without his memories. He then travels the Worlds saving the day and thinking he's fixing everything, when in fact he's making the problem worse?

If so, then why is Dai Shocker even bothering with multiverse-tampering anymore? Or did they just want to eliminate Decade for good this time?

The explanation given in Movie Wars regarding why the Rider War had to happen like that to save the worlds was pretty meta referential - saying that he had to battle the Riders to make their stories remembered through those battles, and the worlds reborn through those memories would be eternal and wouldn't disappear anymore due to something like that.

If you go back to the first episode, they also talked about "stories" and "roles" there - and the official name of the dimensional walls is "aurora curtains", so these meta references were there since the beginning. Basically, they were almost blatantly saying that Decade (the show) exists to make people remember the old shows, not just forget them anymore just because they've ended, something the producer talked about in interviews too.

That's not a bad idea really. But I don't get how seeing reimaginings of past shows with new faces as the characters is supposed to make us remember those shows. Unless they purposely made them so bad or absurd that people would go back and watch the old shows. Or even... people's memories are so bad that their recollections of past shows aren't far off from the reimaginings.

Natsumi's vision was foreseeing the inevitable battle between Decade and the other Riders. Had he stayed as a villain, it'd have happened due to his attempt to conquer the worlds (and it might even have happened before already, although the show never confirms that completely) and with him becoming an hero, it still needed to happen in order to save the worlds. And, no, it's never clearly explained why Natsumi specifically had those visions.

So what was her becoming Kivara about? She felt she had to personally stop Tsukasa and Kivara agreed to help her?

Anyway, although he was technically "making things worse", the worlds were still saved in the end, with everyone killed due to the Rider War and the fusion of worlds returning back to life, and Decade himself also returning due to the friends that he made in his journey remembering him (while he'd have just died in the end if he had gone on to kill the Riders without ever befriending them).

So he killed all the alternate Riders and restored the real ones?

Moebius, maybe, but not Gokaiger. I enjoyed the series in general, but not due to the homage episodes. Bringing back actors was nice, but I didn't like what was done with them there.

Well I agree that leaving the alumni powerless for the sake of form changes wasn't a great move. I'd have rather they fought with the pirates in like the Hurricanger episodes.

 

[Wing Saber]

The whole thing with Decade & Gokaigers was that they were also used to re-introduce the older Riders & Sentai to the new & current fans. Since some of them wern't even born at that time. Which is why Wataru refered the Riders' adventures as stories, that would have been lost to time itself. Beisdes if something have been left on the shelf for a long time, it's usually forgotten. Which is I hope Super Hero Taisen if annually will do is bring back these heroes on a yealry basis, instead of taking them out of the closet once every five years.

 

[NeonZ]

When and why was he thrown out? And if DaiShocker wanted to conquer the Worlds, wouldn't they want to keep them intact? Or did they decide to abort the whole operation after the Worlds began collapsing?

No, Tsukasa still was technically with Dai-Shocker even after losing his memories. He lost his memories and belt while traveling through the worlds to conquer them for Dai-Shocker. It's not clear how though, but one would assume that it was facing the real Heisei Riders, considering how Wataru knew him in the first episode. The movie doesn't make it explicit though.

Anyway, he ends up running into Natsumi and that's the start of the tv show. In the Vs Dai-Shocker movie, as soon as he recovered his memories, he returned to the Great Leader position. Tsukasa then pushed forward a plan to eliminate all Riders (making them fight against each other in a tournament which would supposedly stop the fusion of worlds...), and after it ended with Decade's victory and most other Riders seemingly disappearing in dimensional walls, Dai-Shocker thought they had won.

-After that-, AU Shadow Moon, Tsukikage, (who was a servant of Tsukasa's family and another Dai-Shocker member) made his move, revealing that even Tsukasa's sister sided with him now. He attempted to kill Tsukasa and sent a brainwashed Onodera to finish the job. Tsukikage thought that Decade's abilities weren't necessary anymore and he wasn't fit to the position, so he attempted to kill Decade and take control of Dai-Shocker.

So let me get this straight: Decade as leader opens gateways to conquer Worlds, but when they start fusing he decides to save them and is thrown out of Dai Shocker without his memories.

Tsukasa always intended to conquer them (and "save" them in a way), he's thrown out from Dai-Shocker due to Tsukikage's plotting and manipulation while he was away, not due to his goals specifically. When he recovers his memories, Tsukasa pretty much becomes a villain for a while.

If so, then why is Dai Shocker even bothering with multiverse-tampering anymore? Or did they just want to eliminate Decade for good this time?

Dai-Shocker continued using the bridges created by Decade to travel to and conquer multiple worlds. The only Dai-Shocker member that ever was shown on screen actually "tampering" with the universes to destroy/fuse them directly, rather than just using them to travel, was Apollogeist in the tv finale of Decade. The others, aside from Tsukasa, just didn't seem to care one way or another.

Apollogeist did that mostly to get rid of as many Riders as possible, completely erasing worlds from existence and their Riders alongside them, but he was pretty much by himself by that time and it wasn't how Dai-Shocker was shown to operate in any other occasion. Even so, Kenzaki dismisses him and says that Dai-Shocker isn't the true cause of the fusions of worlds, Apollogeist was merely accelerating it (which is what eventually leads to Decade having to kill the Riders to save the worlds and actually stop and revert the fusion).

So what was her becoming Kivara about? She felt she had to personally stop Tsukasa and Kivara agreed to help her?

From Natsumi's point of view, in Movie Wars, Tsukasa had gone insane and was just killing everyone for no reason. She initially hesitates, but Kivara offers her the power to kill Decade and she ends up using it after she sees Onodera dying. (Still, in the battle itself, Decade pretty much let's himself be killed. Kivara isn't shown to be particularly strong).

So he killed all the alternate Riders and restored the real ones?

He "killed" (well, they actually all just became cards) both alternates, like Onodera, and some real ones (Blade voiced by Kenzaki's actor), but everything was said to be restored in the end by Wataru and the worlds separated again. Keep in mind that the "alternate" worlds in Decade context aren't modified versions of the original worlds, they're just parallel worlds that resemble the previous series in some ways.

Afterwards though, Super Shocker, group formed by leftovers from Dai-Shocker, was still around and so the Decade cast went to face them. At that point, only the alternate Heisei Riders pop up to help Decade in that final battle, which is why I said Movie Wars 2010 couldn't even give fanservice in my previous message. It doesn't help that the final villain was Doras, who had nothing to do with anything else in the entire show or movie. It was like any of the other random revived monsters in Super Shocker's forces, only it happened to be much stronger than the others.