Toku Turn-Offs - What keeps you from liking a Toku show?

[themidnighter]

Because of the sheer volume of material, there are likely some pervasive Tokusatsu elements that you really love... and some that you really hate.

So the question is -- What elements of a Toku show turn you off?

These turn-offs don't have to be rational or story-based -- they can be purely emotional and/or superficial.

For example: No matter how hard I try, I can't get into early-Heisei Kamen Rider series. The cameras they used are so poor, the resulting footage so overtly video, that it's distracting. I swear, the footage in these series is one step above shooting straight to VHS, and it makes the production feel inescapably amateurish. Doesn't matter if the storytelling is good and the characters are interesting -- I just can't get beyond the ass-tacular video. It's upsetting because I know I'm missing out on a lot of high-quality stories. But... maybe if I give it 10 years the video quality will make me feel nostalgic. lol

I have no problem watching Showa Rider series, despite their dated film stock, because at the end of the day, they were still shot on film. I have no problem watching early-Heisei Super Sentai -- maybe because of the cash-infusion from Saban/Disney and Bandai. But early-Heisei Kamen Rider... man... it looks like they shot it in my backyard with the camera I got for Christmas in 8th grade.

 

[Demi-Fiend]

When the story takes far too long to pick up. The story of a series should at the very least start before the 13 episode mark.

 

[Glamador]

Stupid people. It's that simple. I hate watching stupid people **** up. The first few episodes of Blade, the entirety of Black, and most of Ryuki is just horribly marred for me by how incredibly stupid some of the decisions made were. I just can't watch people make utterly illogical, disjoint actions and enjoy it. Unless maaaybe it's part of the character that they are insane...but then there needs to be a character that's in opposition to that, trying to predict the unpredictable.

That's the only thing I can think of in general that really bugs me...sticking too close to a formula without using it to say something more bugs me I guess...that's what I felt was wrong with Wizard and a lot of Showa Era (especially Amazon).

Formula is all well and good, and definitely has its place. Formula is familiar, it puts things into a frame of reference that is a built-in jumping-off point for the audience. But you have to USE that to do something unique. If formula is the be-all end-all then you have FAILED to capture my attention.



There are exceptions to everything. There's nothing that's 100% guaranteed to make me hate a series. It's more like a list of "If they do this without doing that". Because with a competent production team you really can overcome just about anything.

 

[Captain Shark]

-Whacky editing/jump cuts, most Rider series have this issue including Wizard. Usually it happens between commercial breaks, but wow are they bad and it makes you feel like you missed a solid minute of footage. Lots of older toku have this and so far I've only seen this from Toei, not Tsubaraya's stuff.

-Repetitive plots within the same series, Iron King comes to mind but the Space Sheriff trilogy and Zubat are also guilty of this. I like formulas too, but you have to keep it broad.

-Bad final boss fights, 'nough said. Kikaider 01, Iron King, Bio Planet WoO, Kamen Riders Faiz to Kabuto and W, you know who you are.

-Serious villains that are reduced to jokes. Oh Hakaider, why did you become such failsauce in 01?

-Kids that are more harm than good, Inazuman comes to mind although V3 has it too. I'd say characters in general, but Tackle from Stronger is the only adult I can think of so....

-Not fulfilling the cast and instead go with pointless slice of life garbage, Kamen Riders Ryuki and Blade are oh so guilty of this.

-Epilogue ending episodes. Kamen Riders Kuuga and Hibiki I'm looking at you.

-Cliffhanger endings: IT IS ALL DICKAIDO'S FAULT!

Anything else bad in a toku series not mention just look at Bio Planet WoO, it is everything bad with a toku that could happen with the worst execution ever.

 

[shamrocknroll]

OCD Catchphrases: There's a huge difference between having a catchphrase and saying it just to say it. Amazon's howl "Yaoooooooo!" is one example. As much as I could enjoy Amazon and the fights IMO were awesome. That freaking battlecry I couldn't take it so I dropped it. I know Daisuke is a feral child but he can freaking shut up for a minute.

Suits have clashing colors: Not really an issue of Sentai or Rider (Most Rider and sentai outfits I enjoy or can tolerate). But Metal Heroes, almost every to me is just plain bland or seems cobbled together.

Having two stories but one is grossly overshadowing the other: Self-explanatory. Kiva's the big one on this.

 

[Khaiden]

For example: No matter how hard I try, I can't get into early-Heisei Kamen Rider series. The cameras they used are so poor, the resulting footage so overtly video, that it's distracting. I swear, the footage in these series is one step above shooting straight to VHS, and it makes the production feel inescapably amateurish. Doesn't matter if the storytelling is good and the characters are interesting -- I just can't get beyond the ass-tacular video. It's upsetting because I know I'm missing out on a lot of high-quality stories. But... maybe if I give it 10 years the video quality will make me feel nostalgic. lol

I think that in some cases, like Agito, it was intentional. Also, I have to ask, are you sure you got them in the best quality possible?
BTW, for some of them it's already been 10 years

 

[lazycoconut]

- Shows that focus heavily on romance, love triangles, "ship tease", and everyone ending up in a relationship. If I wanted to see a soap opera, I'd watch one. Magiranger, Jetman and Kiva are huge offenders here. I also hate Sentai stock plots about female Rangers posing as brides or having to get out of arranged marriages.

- Robot or suit-only heroes in place of human ones. Again, if I wanted to see a story about robots, I would be watching that instead.

- Shows that try to induce sympathy for the villains, and/or give them screen time at the expense of the heroes. Gekiranger is the worst example of this I've seen so far.

- Shows that present it as the hero's ultimate reward to have a "normal", mundane life that is presented as so much more important and worthy than saving the world. I watch tokusatsu to get away from that, just as people used to watch Dynasty or Dallas to drool over the characters' fabulous wealth and love lives that you could never have for real. Now imagine if those shows had made the characters give all their money and jewels away and go and live in a monastery? For me, it kills the escapism factor.

- Sentai teams that begin with three Rangers. I think five is the minimum that it should start with. I also totally disagree with the idea that fewer heroes leads to better character development or makes them "memorable" (which was apparently Hurricaneger's excuse.) There is no Sentai to date that started with three Rangers and had noticeably better writing or characterisation.

- Arrogant, cocky, dick-bag characters presented as heroes with the audience clearly supposed to see them as such. I like Tendou (who is so OTT that his posturing clearly isn't intended to be taken seriously) and the Gokaigers (who were supposed to acknowledge that they were wrong and that the earth is worth saving). I don't like characters such as Tsukasa, BoukenRed, Zeronos and Nago whose actions the audience is supposed to see as justified.

- Post-2000 Sentai teams with only one woman on a team of five. Sorry Kyoryuger, your producer can suck it. Two is the minimum there should be.

- Gratuitous fanservice involving the actors' bodies. I don't care how good a director Sakamoto is, it's bloody annoying!

- Melodrama, unnecessary angst, and OTT shlock that the writer obviously thinks is deep when it isn't. Kobayashi and Inoue, I'm looking at YOU.

- Gender stereotyping: the female characters all love shopping, and romance, and idol singing, and they're compassionate and understand everyone's feelings, etc. The guys are aloof and emotionally distant "tsundere", etc.

- When characters can't stand on their own and their entire being is wrapped up in another character, or they exist to further another character's storyline. Recent examples that come to mind are Koyomi (who had no personality or existence outside of Haruto) and Date (who was used to train Gotou to replace him as Birth, and then discarded.)

- Writers or producers trying way too hard to be clever. Inoue and his convoluted soap-opera nonsense comes to mind yet again, as does Power Rangers RPM and its "hilarious" meta wisecracks.

 

[themidnighter]

I think that in some cases, like Agito, it was intentional. Also, I have to ask, are you sure you got them in the best quality possible?
BTW, for some of them it's already been 10 years

I meant 10 more years -- 20 years is the typical nostalgia turning point, right? :laugh:

I used to do encoding professionally, so I did search for the highest quality files available. I'm confident I'm getting the best experience, such as it is.

You think Agito was meant to look amateurish? Cause that and Kuuga are the hardest ones for me to watch, despite finding the premises cool and the characters interesting. Not sure I understand what you mean by intentional in this case. But again, like I said, it's my problem as a viewer, not the show's. :sweat:

 

[Khaiden]

I meant 10 more years -- 20 years is the typical nostalgia turning point, right? :laugh:

Man, reminds me of that argument about the Hurricanger reunion being too soon.

You think Agito was meant to look amateurish? Cause that and Kuuga are the hardest ones for me to watch, despite finding the premises cool and the characters interesting. Not sure I understand what you mean by intentional in this case. But again, like I said, it's my problem as a viewer, not the show's. :sweat:

I'm not sure as I said, but there are some episodes in Agito that have this sort-of blue/green lighting to them, that I believe was meant to give a very detached and bizarre feeling, or to give you the blurry view Gills had in one of the episodes I'm thinking of (he pretty much spent the entirety of it getting beaten up). In both Kuuga and Agito there's some lens flares here and there that IMO remind you of how mysterious things are for the characters.

 

[FlashNeko]

You think Agito was meant to look amateurish? Cause that and Kuuga are the hardest ones for me to watch, despite finding the premises cool and the characters interesting. Not sure I understand what you mean by intentional in this case. But again, like I said, it's my problem as a viewer, not the show's. :sweat:

I'd say it's less trying to "look amateurish" and more that both Kuuga and Agito are emulating the look and feel of different types of Japanese TV Drama Programs that tend to operate on a lower budget than your typical super hero show.

One of Kuuga's high concepts is reinterpreting how a super hero comes off when viewed through the lens of a Police Drama. To use a not-quite-the-same-but-you-get-the-idea example, it would be like a Batman TV series using the filming and dramatic style of Law and Order.

Agito did something similar but expanded the scope to examining a super hero show through the lens of Japanese TV Drama in general. This is why you have three different types with each protagonist (the Police Drama with Hikawa, the Bad Boy Learns Harsh Life Lessons with Ryo, and the Family Life Drama with Shouichi).

This is incidentally why Agito is the strongest of Inoue's works because it's functioning well within his wheelhouse.

One of the key things to keep in mind with both these cases is that the shows in those genres, at the time, were usually shot on video because that was all their budgets could afford. So to make the high concept be convincing they had to make sure it "looked" right and thus filmed in the same format.

... Also, especially in Kuuga's case, I imagine it became MUCH easier to get Toei to green-light it when the creators revealed they would be saving them a TON of money on filming costs.

Now that doesn't change the fact that, for some people, the cheapness of its look will throw them off and there is no denying it can look VERY cheap at points. I love Kuuga to death but damn, even by early 2000s standards some of that CGI is REALLY bad looking.

I suppose my point is you can dislike how it looks but can still have a respect and appreciation for what it was going for.