The crossover everyone wants......

[Shynilyte]

Not anymore, it isn't. Ever since "Ultra Galaxy," everything in the Ultraverse has been as bad as a Movie War Core.
I say it now and I'll say it again: "Ultra Galaxy: The Movie" was overrated mindless crap. In one stroke, it mucked up the continuity, previous characters, and any villain who isn't named 'Belial.'

Uh, in what way did it contradict any of the past continuity? The Showa Ultraman universe literally had some millenia between the origin of the Ultras and the original Ultraman's arrival on earth. There's a lot you can fit during that time. I vaguely remember a post from Daikamonohashi about how the backstory didn't really contradict anything.

And anyway, it's not like Ultraman continuity is all that tight.

Also, Belial was unbelievably two dimensional. Every line of dialogue was "Did I mention that I'm evil?" He never had the on-screen intimidation of Zetton, the cunning and entertaining nature of Knackle, or the grace of a final nemesis such as Enpera. He was just a massive gimmick. The idea was fine... Until they pulled a Worf Effect with every single Ultra that isn't the shiny-brand-new-super-cool-toy Ultra, who was actually the first Ultraman I ever disliked.

I'm not completely sure about Empera, and not at all about Knuckle, but how the hell does Zetton have any more depth than... anybody? He was just a weapon for the Zetton-seijins to use. Hell, most, if not all of the Zettons in canon were just weapons for somebody else to use rather than actual characters. Zetton had about as much characterization as Deathfacer. Belial didn't have much to his personality, but Zetton didn't have any personality. Which was kinda the point, but complaining about a character's lack of depth, then contrasting him with somebody with even less depth is a little confusing.

 

[Mr. Rhythmic]

Uh, in what way did it contradict any of the past continuity? The Showa Ultraman universe literally had some millenia between the origin of the Ultras and the original Ultraman's arrival on earth. There's a lot you can fit during that time. I vaguely remember a post from Daikamonohashi about how the backstory didn't really contradict anything.

I never, ever used the word 'contradict,' so I really don't have a clue what you mean.
'Mucked' as in what was once easy to follow and straightforward has become one gigantic clusterfuck. No contradiction, just poor writing. Hell, there wasn't even a point in making the Ultras previously human. It did nothing to help the story, it was just some writer wanting to be remembered for retconning the original idea that they are sentient bodies of light.

And anyway, it's not like Ultraman continuity was ever all that tight.

...Are you joking? For Showa? Yes, it was.

I'm not completely sure about Empera, and not at all about Knuckle, but how the hell does Zetton have any more depth than... anybody? He was just a weapon for the Zetton-seijins to use. Hell, most, if not all of the Zettons in canon were just weapons for somebody else to use rather than actual characters. Zetton had about as much characterization as Deathfacer. Belial didn't have much to his personality, but Zetton didn't have any personality. Which was kinda the point, but complaining about a character's lack of depth, then contrasting him with somebody with even less depth is a little confusing.

Again, you're reading what I wrote incorrectly. I said 'intimidation' for Zetton. That allows for a personal emotion towards the character. Until recently, Zetton was the ultimate fear for all Ultras. The Jack finale had Jack overcoming fear. He was terrified of the idea of fighting Zetton. Zetton had a history. The audience can understand the fear, because he was a cold, emotionless agent of death, and we saw him take down the very first Ultraman. But what makes him a better villain than someone than Belial is that he never said awful "I will take over" lines constantly and could NEVER lose. But he's an obstacle. We even saw Mebius in hesitation. He was scared. Zetton moments tended to be very genuine, not just "He is the best ever and no one can win!" It was far more deep seeded.

 

[Shynilyte]

I never, ever used the word 'contradict,' so I really don't have a clue what you mean.
'Mucked' as in what was once easy to follow and straightforward has become one gigantic clusterfuck. No contradiction, just poor writing. Hell, there wasn't even a point in making the Ultras previously human. It did nothing to help the story, it was just some writer wanting to be remembered for retconning the original idea that they are sentient bodies of light.

Ultras being originally human was always canon, actually. There were guide books talking about that. The movie was just illustrating something that was always known.

...Are you joking? For Showa? Yes, it was.

Uh, no. Off the top of my head (and this is coming from somebody who has seen little Showa Ultraman) there was Seven's arsehole of a boss who was never mentioned again, and some contradiction about Taro's origin. Based on what Ultra Mother said, Taro was born when they brought Kotaro Higashi to the Land of Light, but at some point (not sure if it was during the series or after) Taro suddenly had a history before they brought Kotaro. Not much major stuff, but Ultra Galaxy didn't mess anything up further.

Again, you're reading what I wrote incorrectly. I said 'intimidation' for Zetton. That allows for a personal emotion towards the character. Until recently, Zetton was the ultimate fear for all Ultras. The Jack finale had Jack overcoming fear. He was terrified of the idea of fighting Zetton. Zetton had a history. The audience can understand the fear, because he was a cold, emotionless agent of death, and we saw him take down the very first Ultraman. But what makes him a better villain than someone than Belial is that he never said awful "I will take over" lines constantly and could NEVER lose. But he's an obstacle. We even saw Mebius in hesitation. He was scared. Zetton moments tended to be very genuine, not just "He is the best ever and no one can win!" It was far more deep seeded.

How other characters react towards Zetton does not make Zetton itself less two-dimensional than Belial. "Belial sucks because he was twwo-dimensional" looks weird when followed by "Zetton was awesome for reasons unrelated to character depth".

 

[Kamen Rider ShinkenRed]

^The idea of Ultra's originally being human appeared in Mebius though. It wasn't directly seen there, but it was specifically stated by Mirai.

Also Belial's threat level was pretty well established in the flashback in Ultra Galaxy given he was able to fight off 3 of the most powerful known Ultra's (to my understanding) in the flashback, and only King was able to threaten him. I can understand you finding Zero kind of Mary Sueish, but they did a fair bit to establish why he was powerful on his own in the movie, what with being Seven's son and receiving training from Leo and King.

 

[NeonZ]

Hell, there wasn't even a point in making the Ultras previously human. It did nothing to help the story, it was just some writer wanting to be remembered for retconning the original idea that they are sentient bodies of light.

The point there was to explain the actor cameos in the movie, no? Some of them originally needed hosts for human forms, but they appeared in human form in the movie anyway, even without hosts.

 

[Shynilyte]

I think he was referring to the backstory scene showing the Ultra Spark forcing human(like beings) to evolve into Ultras. The old actors appearing was already justified with how the Land of Light lost its power source.

I can understand you finding Zero kind of Mary Sueish, but they did a fair bit to establish why he was powerful on his own in the movie, what with being Seven's son and receiving training from Leo and King.

Being the son of Ultraseven and directly training under Leo and King kinda makes him even more Mary Sueish, though. Yet somehow I don't really mind that. Not like I watch Zero's movies for good writing, anyway. Revenge of Belial was cool visuals with great Kenji Kawai music, and Saga was just Dyna fanboyism.

 

[NeonZ]

I think he was referring to the backstory scene showing the Ultra Spark forcing human(like beings) to evolve into Ultras. The old actors appearing was already justified with how the Land of Light lost its power source.

Those two things are directly related, I think. The exposition about the Ultraman originally being human-like was there to explain why they got human forms once the Land of Light lost its power.

 

[Zindaku]

Okay here's another question. How do you want the ending song to sound like?
Like this:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBtBGP9wv8A"]MISIA Hoshi no You ni.. (Mega Monster Battle Ultra Galaxy Legend The Movie) - YouTube[/ame]
Like this:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL723pVjXBk"]?? ~We are Brothers~ Hero Music All Stars FULL SUB ENGLISH AND 3D - YouTube[/ame]
Like this:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFQoib2gtzU"]v6 light in your heart - YouTube[/ame]
Like this:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPZKpiBC_5o"]GIRL NEXT DOOR / ???????Destiny's star? - YouTube[/ame]
or like this:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOfHYvKzq2s"]Te wo Tsunagou ~ Matsuken x Kamen Rider Samba ~ Official Music Video - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Mr. Rhythmic]

Ultras being originally human was always canon, actually. There were guide books talking about that. The movie was just illustrating something that was always known.

Ok then, bad example, but nevertheless true.

Uh, no. Off the top of my head (and this is coming from somebody who has seen little Showa Ultraman) there was Seven's arsehole of a boss who was never mentioned again, and some contradiction about Taro's origin. Based on what Ultra Mother said, Taro was born when they brought Kotaro Higashi to the Land of Light, but at some point (not sure if it was during the series or after) Taro suddenly had a history before they brought Kotaro. Not much major stuff, but Ultra Galaxy didn't mess anything up further.

Those are minor contradictions. A few mini story errors in 40 years worth of story is not the same as inconsistency.
Ok, again, not fully reading my statements. I mean in general, everything's now mucked. Characters that were once great are now immediately pathetic, alternate universes aren't even technically alternate anymore, and etc.
And I am so sick of seeing the same monsters again and again, making classic threats seem nothing but fodder.

How other characters react towards Zetton does not make Zetton itself less two-dimensional than Belial. "Belial sucks because he was twwo-dimensional" looks weird when followed by "Zetton was awesome for reasons unrelated to character depth".

...I'm confused, did you just not read what I wrote? Zetton doesn't have depth, I NEVER SAID THAT HE DID. Zetton is a better villain entirely on his presence to the series as a whole. Belial is a loud generic villain that is to Ultraman as Carnage is to Spider-Man: A poorly written gimmick. When we first see Zetton, what did we know about him? Nothing. Was he the leader? Was he their ultimate weapon? What exactly was he? We didn't know. Out of this massive invasion comes this monster, silent and abnormal by even kaiju standards, and Ultraman struggles to match him. That's intimidating, and the atmosphere for it was great. The only sounds were that of Zetton's creepy beeping and growling. The audience caught a sense of dread from this, no cackling, no Dragonball Z tosses, just a mysterious being who raises more questions than answers. Zetton is a definitive death weapon, straight up. No allusion of that, and he services the role amazingly with his eery sounds, design, and demeanor. Belial, with a background story with so much potential, ended up being a walking Worf Effect. All I saw was a fanboy behind a computer going "Well my Ultras are better than your Ultras!" I didn't see a challenge, I saw a fanfiction character made reality.

Belial's threat level was pretty well established in the flashback in Ultra Galaxy given he was able to fight off 3 of the most powerful known Ultra's (to my understanding) in the flashback, and only King was able to threaten him.

They established it five minutes before the event. That doesn't have the same impact at all.

I can understand you finding Zero kind of Mary Sueish

"ish"
More like "absolutely a Mary Sue"

 

[Zindaku]

Just seeing Hongo, Hayata, Kaijou, and Retsu in some superbase talking about what their various missions are would be a "hell-yeah!" moment by itself.

How about:
Electronic Star Beast Dol vs Space Dragon Narse
Members of Black Satan using the choju,Black Satan
Kagaku Sentai Dynaman and Ultraman Dyna
Kotaro and Kenzaki meeting Hayata and Dan
Gamu meeting Kougami
The Jean-Brothers(assuming they are rebuilt after Ultra Zero Fight) vs Space Ironmen Kyodain