Just Binged-Watch B:TAS. It's BETTER than Superman: TAS, TNBA & Batman Beyond

toddj82

New Member
It know this is an age old debate, but i'm a recent covert.

I've been re-watching Batman: TAS, I just realized now that this series is MUCH better & far superior than Superman: TAS, TNBA and Batman Beyond combined.

I'm now 40 yrs old. I can now deeply appreciate Batman: TAS more and see its brilliance. I can see things that I didn't see when i was growing up as a teen in the '90s

with TNBA - Looking at it now, it feels like Bruce Timm's team were forced to 'cheapen' and 'water down' Batman to 'fit' into the superman show.

to be honest back then the promotion was very clever "the batman/superman adventures' super hour block w/ Batman Beyond as the 3rd show was brilliant marketing but looking at it all now.

it's pretty obvious that they had a smaller animation budget to work with. it seems like it was basically all a ploy to sell new toys to us kids back then which is fine. i mean that is the point of a cartoon at the end of the day its 'ratings' and 'new toys' & 'merch'

when they came over to Cartoon Network they were able to 'restore' the mature story telling we had with B:TAS with Justice League w/ a bigger budget for the animation, everything got BETTER and more crisp.

As a teenager in the '90s and pretty much throughout the 2000s I saw Superman TAS, Batman Beyond and TNBA as being cooler & more interesting & more fun than B:TAS.

but reflecting on it now after binge watching everything.. Batman: TAS was just in a class of its own. literally.

I mean just from the animation you can tell they had a BIGGER budget for the animation. Also the writing was better, more mature & more adult & complex. the episodes were mini-movies.

also the timeline. B:TAS is unique in that the cars, clothes & decor appears to be a post-ww2, 1950s/1960s era but in the show there is 1990s technology. So it created a tone that

batman has all this advanced tech that even the police don't have and this is why he has the upper hand. it was just a better show.

personally I don't DISLIKE the designs of TNBA, it was the quality of the animation just looked flatter and more cartoony combined w/ weak storylines. Like I said, the show became a big TOY for the kids

and it showed. Not a total disgrace but a MAJOR downgrade. And if you listen to audio commentary for TNBA on the DVD you can tell that certain episodes, you can tell that Bruce Timm is slightly embrassed by some episodes due to the quality of the animation.

just like how certain comic runs use diff. artists and different timelines. I view B:TAS as its own separate continuity and TNBA is a reboot/sequel meant to modernize

but i can understand why Bruce's team did what they did. the company behind the animation wanted to sell more toys & video games so they contacted Bruce's team and the kept it going.

but they clearly had lots of limitations and had a smaller budget to work with.

I suspect that when they got the opportunity to do Batman Beyond Return of the Joker and Justice League on cartoon network - they were determined to right the wrongs of TNBA
 

maaji_maji_maji~ro

Well-Known Member
BTAS always have a place in my heart because of how it humanized the villains to the point I root for them instead of Batman. Mr. Freeze and Harley Quinn are villains who made me realize the world is not always black and white.
 

EileenCruz

Administrator
Staff member
with TNBA - Looking at it now, it feels like Bruce Timm's team were forced to 'cheapen' and 'water down' Batman to 'fit' into the superman show.

to be honest back then the promotion was very clever "the batman/superman adventures' super hour block w/ Batman Beyond as the 3rd show was brilliant marketing but looking at it all now.

it's pretty obvious that they had a smaller animation budget to work with. it seems like it was basically all a ploy to sell new toys to us kids back then which is fine. i mean that is the point of a cartoon at the end of the day its 'ratings' and 'new toys' & 'merch'
If I remember correctly, some of the redesigns were done to make it easier for the studios they were working with to animate the characters. Being able to sell new toys probably didn't hurt either.

but reflecting on it now after binge watching everything.. Batman: TAS was just in a class of its own. literally.

I mean just from the animation you can tell they had a BIGGER budget for the animation. Also the writing was better, more mature & more adult & complex. the episodes were mini-movies.
I remember reading that early on that BTAS was basically made in a vacuum without as much outside influence. They were just like, get us a show to capitalize on the Batman movies.

also the timeline. B:TAS is unique in that the cars, clothes & decor appears to be a post-ww2, 1950s/1960s era but in the show there is 1990s technology. So it created a tone that

batman has all this advanced tech that even the police don't have and this is why he has the upper hand. it was just a better show.
That is pretty cool. But ever wonder why GCPD has dirigibles? That seems pretty inefficient and costly.

I suspect that when they got the opportunity to do Batman Beyond Return of the Joker and Justice League on cartoon network - they were determined to right the wrongs of TNBA
They got to do some good stories on CN. You know what? I think I'd like to see more Batman Beyond.
 

toddj82

New Member
totally. its' clear that B:TAS was influenced by Tim Burton's batman.

I actually now view Superman:TAS , TNBA and Batman Beyond as just a pre-amble for 'Justice League / Justice League Unlimited'

the animation company that worked on Justice League ( 'DR Movie' ) really perfected the animation style that was started w/ Superman: TAS

its just clear that Superman, TNBA they had a smaller animation budget whereas with B:TAS and Justice League they had a large budget and little to no restrictions.

Don't get me wrong, there were B:TAS eps with bad animation too that haven't aged well, "Christmas with the Joker" comes to mind and "Nothing to Fear" as well. but still the characters & the story telling was always 'mature'

However, I can see why that iteration of the show stopped. by the time of Batman: Subzero that 'Neo-Noir' 'Post-WW2' '1950s/1960s' style Bat-verse that had 1990s technology had run its course. The novelty factor had wore off.

I actually love the re-designs of TNBA. 'Over-The Edge' was very well aniamted. its just the quality of the animation in certain eps and the quality of the stories took on Saturday Morning Cartoon vibe with TNBA at times. And the 'mature' vibe of B:TAS mostly lost. there were some great episodes no doubt but even in the episode audio commentary Timm and Dini joke at the bad animation in TNBA at times.

Superman was a good & fun show that introduced me to to Darksied & Apokolips, TNBA was an interesting but flawed reboot-sequel, and batmn beyond was actually VERY good. there were some interesting cross-overs.

i like what was done with 'Mystery of the Batwoman' and 'Brainiac Attacks' cooler / better quality animation, mature story telling.

I liked how in Justice League Unlimited they resolved-completed the Batman Beyond story arc in 'Epilogue'

the funny part is the last Timmverse entries "Batman & Harley Quinn" and "Justice League vs The Fatal Five" have taken on a Edgy PG-13 tone that is a borderline on Rated R. The Timmverse is not for the kids anymore..I guess WB figures were all grown up now and can handle it.

Characters Curse now, there's blood, sex, characters can get impaled graphically. there's innuendo.

I think they should bring back TNBA and Justice League and have them run parallel to each other, the "Harley Quinn' and 'fatal five' films were a good test to show that a series in that style & tone could work.
 
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EileenCruz

Administrator
Staff member
I appreciate the designs in TNBA as well. I think the character that benefitted from it most was Bruce Wayne. His character was kind of clunky looking, and he dressed like he didn't have Alfred to shop for him.

Over the Edge was very well animated. I need to go back and watch that again. It's been awhile. Thanks for reminding me.

You are probably correct about the decreased budget for STAS. But, credit where credit is due. Superman did accomplish one thing that BTAS never did for me. That one jaw dropping moment that involves Darkseid. Totally caught me off guard the first time I watched it.

I remember not being that crazy about the animation in Mystery of the Batwoman. I rewatched it recently on HBO Max, and still not crazy about the animation. I don't think it was on par with their other work. But, I'm warming on the story. I can't remember anything about Brainiac Attacks. But I'll give it another shot based on your recommendation.

Epilogue did provide some closure and was also very good. I watched the episode pretty intently.

I would like to see them bring back TNBA and JL as well, as an evening block. As long as the storytelling is solid, I'd be down with a more mature Timmverse block. Hopefully, we'll get to see that happen someday. Watch party when it does.

What would you say are the top 5 episodes that makes BTAS the best of the Timmverse shows?
 

toddj82

New Member
Hands down the best BTAS episodes are "On Leather Wings" "Two Face Part 1" "Vendetta" "Feat of Clay Part II" "Night of the Ninja" "Day of the Samurai" "I am the night" "Off-Balance" "Robin's Reckoning Part 1 & 2" "The Forgotten" "Tyger, Tyger" "Bane" "His Silicon Soul"

but like i said B:TAS is like an alternate universe to TNBA, S:TAS, Batman Beyond, JL/JLU
 
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EileenCruz

Administrator
Staff member
I'll include two-part episodes as one entry into my list. My top 5 are "Feat of Clay", "Robin's Reckoning", "Two-Face", "Heart of Ice", and "Harlequinade", with honorable mentions to "Harley's Holiday" and "The Cat and the Claw". In the NY market, The Cat and the Claw was the first episode of BTAS that aired in prime time, as part of a two week event. I recorded it on VHS, and I can't even remember how many times I watched that recording in a row until the rest of the show began to air.

Obviously, it's a little slow here right now. I'm working on getting more people here. But, just in case you don't want to check in all the time, there's a "watch" button to the far right of the forum pagination. If you click on that, you can subscribe for forum or email notifications. You might also see pages (currently for BTAS) that I'm converting from HTML to Wordpress. And of course, if you post something, I'm obviously more than happy to talk in-depth about BTAS and all of the Timmverse.

It's very nice to meet you.
 
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