Sony Disses Motion Cotrol (While Shilling Their Own)

[FlashNeko]

http://kotaku.com/5508894/sony-hardcore-gamers-look-down-their-nose-at-motion-control

Dille went on to explain that "hard-core gamers have looked down their nose at motion gaming: it's not particularly satisfying for them because it's not terribly precise or challenging, it's more social."

... And yet the Move is just a Wiimote with a big ball on the end, making it look like some questionable sex toy.

At this point, I shouldn't be surprised by corporate double-speak, but the way Sony is acting like they're reinventing the hardcore wheel still gets to me sometimes.

I mean, c'mon guys, this is the same kind of mis-steps that made the PS3 stumble out of the gate so hard you're only now catching up. Did you learn nothing from "500.99 US Dollars" and "Giant Enemy Crab"?

 

[unmei]

And yet the Move is just a Wiimote with a big ball on the end

well.. first off, not this crap again. This has been gone over before, but I'll take the time to explain it again.

Move is nothing like the Wiimote aside from the fact that they're both motion controllers. In every other respect they are fundamentally different. The wii is based on a modified accelerometer with an optical sensor built in. Accelerometers have usually done a poor job representing a 1:1 movement ratio for anything other than tilting, which you can see from most Wii games, or ps3 games that rely on heavy use of the sixaxis's tilt sensor. This is one of the reasons Nintendo had to release the motion+ (which adds on a gyroscope to the accelerometer to get it closer to a 1:1 representation)

Move however is based on something much more stable and proven, that something being motion capture. While it's never seen heavy use as a controller aspect, it's a staple of the gaming industry, and most developers are already familiar with the technology in one way or another. Motion capture is capable of easily representing a 1:1 movement ratio, and while I don't think the initial batch of games will truly be a 1:1 ratio, this has the most potential of getting there of the three motion controllers.


And as for the article itself, I agree with what they're saying, 'hardcore' gamers aren't haven't had a real drive towards motion control, though their reasoning behind it isn't entirely accurate. It's due less in part to the accuracy of existing motion controls, and more so because, up until recently, there was too much of a focus on casual/family/social games that were available for the system. What few 'hardcore' titles, such as MadWorld, that came out for the Wii were bought and enjoyed by the 'hardcore', and if Sony can get out more of the 'hardcore' titles to incorporate this (like they're doing by updating some of their back catalog to use it, such as uncharted 2) I could easily see this being a boon for Sony.

They're not shooting themselves in the foot with a statement like that, they're providing accurate information, and they're stating how they plan to change that view.

 

[FlashNeko]

Move however is based on something much more stable and proven, that something being motion capture. While it's never seen heavy use as a controller aspect, it's a staple of the gaming industry, and most developers are already familiar with the technology in one way or another. Motion capture is capable of easily representing a 1:1 movement ratio, and while I don't think the initial batch of games will truly be a 1:1 ratio, this has the most potential of getting there of the three motion controllers.

And yet it still looks just like a Wiimote with a ball on it and basically only exists to add motion control to a game.

And yet the idea of motion control itself seemed to be what Sony was poo-pooing (except when they do it, then it's balls awesome). This is more the point I was trying to make.

It's due less in part to the accuracy of existing motion controls, and more so because, up until recently, there was too much of a focus on casual/family/social games that were available for the system. What few 'hardcore' titles, such as MadWorld, that came out for the Wii were bought and enjoyed by the 'hardcore', and if Sony can get out more of the 'hardcore' titles to incorporate this (like they're doing by updating some of their back catalog to use it, such as uncharted 2) I could easily see this being a boon for Sony.

Except Madworld actually sold rather poorly so there's more going on there than just "Casual VS Hardcore" (and GOD, do I fucking hate those labels). The Wii has more "hardcore" games than a lot of people think, "hardcore" gamers just seem to refuse to pay attention to them because... I dunno, the Wii gives you cooties if you look at it.

And man, the Wii gets flack for having titles that are older games with motion controls added on (except for RE4). So it's not like Sony will be exempt from that line of criticism as well

They're not shooting themselves in the foot with a statement like that, they're providing accurate information, and they're stating how they plan to change that view.

See, I just question how accurate some of their information is, since they've already told some whopping lies over what the Wiimote is/is not capable of to try and make themselves sound better.

I don't hate Sony (hell, I love my PSP despite the fact that its pretty much being strangled to death slowly) I've just seen this kind of swagger from them before and know it never leads to anything good.

 

[unmei]

nowhere in the actual article, (either the original, or the kotaku version) does sony say anything against motion control.

"hard-core gamers have looked down their nose at motion gaming: it's not particularly satisfying for them because it's not terribly precise or challenging, it's more social."

This is not a slam on motion control. It is an accurate statement regarding how most of the gaming community views motion control. As can be seen in the original article below, taken from an interview the Financial Times did with Peter Dille

With motion controllers how are you going to differentiate Move from the Wii Motion plus and Project Natal for the Xbox 360?

We’ve spent a lot of time on that over the last couple of weeks and the biggest differentiator is the technology itself - the Wii has been wildly successful but at the end of the day it’s not a very precise experience and it relies on the wand. Microsoft’s’s approach appears to be no wand, no controller, just a camera, which means that your body’s the user interface. Our solution and point of differentiation is around precision, because we’ve got the camera - the Playstation Eye - and the motion controller which has the light at the tip, and the camera tracks the light very precisely in 3D space. The combination of that precision along with the button on the controller means that you’re now able to develop and play games that you can’t do with the Wii and Natal. That level of precision gives you different types of experiences like a [first-person] shooter and we can do casual games as well. So we’ll have family-friendly games like ping pong or archery, to games for young kids like iPet , which is a very creative game. It’s a virtual pet you nurture and it comes out to play with you on your carpet using the Eye. You can give it commands, you can pet it and it will respond, you can give it tasks, it will fly a plane. We got a tremendous response to it from retailers we showed it to at Destination PlayStation.

Hard-core gamers have looked down their nose at motion gaming: it’s not particularly satisfying for them because it’s not terribly precise or challenging, it’s more social. So we’ll have games that the whole family can play that are very social , but we’ll also be able to do hard-core gamer games via a motion device that has never been done before. It’s too early to say what the killer app or signature game is but we’ll continue through the spring and late summer before we make a decision on which game is the poster child or the best one to move the Move.

Again, there is nothing there negative about motion control, unless you consider Dille's statement then hard core gamers have been shunning motion control to be a slam, which I do not, since I know exactly where he's coming from with that statement. I would be counterproductive of them to start attacking motion controls since Move is pretty much all they've been pushing since it was announced at GDC. I can definitely see where Dille is coming from with the statement, because it's a fact with the current gaming society. It's more so a fact because people associate motion control with the wii, and the will with family/social gaming, than associating motion control with family/social gaming however.

Full article below
http://blogs.ft.com/techblog/2010/04/ps3s-time-is-now-says-sony/

 

[FlashNeko]

Again, there is nothing there negative about motion control, unless you consider Dille's statement then hard core gamers have been shunning motion control to be a slam, which I do not, since I know exactly where he's coming from with that statement.

See, the problem is that, given the way gamer lingo has evolved since the advent of the Wii, calling something "Social/Casual" IS a slam when you're trying to appeal to a "hardcore" audience, which Sony is claiming that they're doing.

(Again, this is why I fucking hate these kinds of labels. I own a 360, so that makes me "hardcore" but I also have a Wii, and I have three times as many Wii games as I do 360 games, so that makes me "casual" or a "babby" in more derogatory terms.)

 

[unmei]

If i were going to take that as a dig at motion control, I think I'd call it more of a slam on the current use of motion control than motion control as a whole. Dille's is pretty much saying that they're planning to change that outlook on motion control and bring it more into the mainstream for the 'hard core' market. I can definitely say I'm a lot more interested in Dukes than I've been in any of the Wii boxing games, particularly because it seems to do a much better job tracking movement than any of the Wii one's I've played, so I can say that in that respect, mission accomplished.

I agree with you regarding the labeling of casual vs hard core gaming though, as a PSWii60 owner myself, I fall into similar trappings. As such I'm Two parts hardcore, One part Casual, by modern standards. I'm also apparently a PS/MS/Nintendo fanboy as the definition for each becomes convenient.

 

[Shadro]

I'm just gonna put it out there, but the Move from my experience playing with it works like how I thought the wiimote was gonna work. I got to mess around with a fighting game and it worked really well, I could see myself playing a game out that and not fighting with the controls. I mean I think that's why the 'hardcore' hasn't taken the jump to motion controls yet, there just hasn't been anything good. I think the Move has a chance to do so, from what I saw and I wish I tried the table tennis they had set up, it was basically having a paddle where things like backspin and backhands felt natural and you didn't have to exaggerate any motions.

So brining back this around to a short, understandable version. Reps are gonna act like reps and say stuff like this all the time, come on it just happens. The game are what are going to make or break the Move, or any motion controls, it has to be done right. Don't knock it till you try it, I thought the move was stupid, and then I tried it and I changed my mind.

 

[m121akuma]

I'm not trying to say anything for or against the Move, I just thought this was appropriate.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/3/24/