Heroes are forever
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2007
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- 3,124
Having not seen much Sentai, I mostly speak for the Rider side so apologies if something escapes me.
And Rider isn't really that expected to ''keep convention''. Look at Hibiki, they had to add bikes because there were many complains about the lack of them.
Notice they were complaining about that and not about the non-belt devices they used to transform... and the fact they didn't say Henshin either.
I really don't see any of these ''expectations'', because for one fan that wants to be traditional there is always another that wants innovation. And I'm basing this only on the discussions I've seen in this forum.
But, is it really this way? How was Maskman when BLACK was airing too? As far as I've heard, Liveman is one of the most intense and darkest Sentai series, and it aired alongside BLACK for most of it's run. (And then came the lighthearted RX to make up for it?).
I hate to think Sentai is supposed to be too juvenile. Yeah, I'm with the people that say I want it to be more risky... but not because it's history says they haven't.
Then there's the themes and stories the main Riders go through... hell, even many of the secondary ones. Kamen Rider has always had a lonely hero. Always. There's always been a struggle about identity and what their place in the world is, since they are going through something nobody else is, and they have no one to relate to. I've said this before, but the differences between eras are only cosmetic.
What I'm trying to say here, is that Rider has always kept it's ''conventions'' and what has changed is only visual. They have taken a lot of risks yes, but never breaking the spirit of the show. Just like Sentai, when daring to go with a unique approach, is still about a group of people learning about the power of teamwork, partnership and trust between each other.
V3 did the 2-parter episode method mostly associated with Heisei series.
X-Rider, while still having MOTW, was also filled with arcs, not a single episode being filler.
Amazon was also remarkable for not having the appearance of any past Riders.
To find a few? I've found thousands in this board alone.
A lot of people had requested a change in the formula (two Riders, with the second introduced in the 10s) that had haunted Rider recently.
There are some things that should never be changed truth be told. Complaining about a lack of bikes in a Rider-series is valid IMO, since they are supposed to be RIDERS in the first place, it would be like having a Super Sentai Series that's well... like Kabuto, 6 people are in the show and only two ever team up... and that's only sometimes.It seems to me that fans expect Sentai to be bold, experimental and challenge the traditional formula of the show, but they expect Kamen Rider to maintain certain elements every time and stick to the "karate bugman" image. They are harsher when they think Sentai is "playing it safe", and when they think Kamen Rider has strayed too far from what the franchise "should" be. For instance, look at the most common criticisms of Goseiger (that it's "bland", formulaic, predictable, too "safe", no creative risks taken) vs Fourze (it doesn't make much use of the iconic bikes or insect design, and people complain that it was too slapstick to be recognisable as a Kamen Rider series.) Conversely, the most commonly praised aspects of Gekiranger and Go-Busters (supposedly being fresh and different and shaking up the conventional image of Sentai) vs W (giving a modern touch to the classic Rider look and elements of Showa Rider.)
And Rider isn't really that expected to ''keep convention''. Look at Hibiki, they had to add bikes because there were many complains about the lack of them.
Notice they were complaining about that and not about the non-belt devices they used to transform... and the fact they didn't say Henshin either.
I really don't see any of these ''expectations'', because for one fan that wants to be traditional there is always another that wants innovation. And I'm basing this only on the discussions I've seen in this forum.
How true is this contrast? As I was trying to remember the latest ''dark'' Sentai series, my mind went to Timeranger, which was in 2000, the year Rider returned. And so every Sentai series afterwards went ''lighter'' to make up for Rider's more ''serious'' tones.Now, why? My initial thought was that it's just what people think will make for a more "mature" and adult-appealing show: Sentai will push the envelope and look beyond its target audience of pre-schoolers, while Kamen Rider will maintain the "darker" image associated with Showa and early Heisei. But in retrospect, I'm not sure it's that clear-cut. Thoughts?
But, is it really this way? How was Maskman when BLACK was airing too? As far as I've heard, Liveman is one of the most intense and darkest Sentai series, and it aired alongside BLACK for most of it's run. (And then came the lighthearted RX to make up for it?).
I hate to think Sentai is supposed to be too juvenile. Yeah, I'm with the people that say I want it to be more risky... but not because it's history says they haven't.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. Rider has kept true to it's essence, even in such shows where there's lack of bike action, there IS a bike in the first place and only once have they dared to remove it... my Hibiki example above, it didn't take them long to add one after the many complains.I think the real issue here is that both Super Sentai and Kamen Rider are shows that stick to a formula, and what makes formulaic shows appealing (at least to me) is to see how they can play around or re-invent themselves with each iteration.
As for Kamen Rider, the problem is the polar opposite; since the beginning the franchise had a defined concept and most shows have sticked to the basic elements of what makes Kamen Rider, but in an effort to keep it relevant the franchise has reinvented itself so much that modern show do not resemble the original Kamen Rider enough, and even though they are all good shows, some of them even great, there comes a point where you can´t shake the feeling that you could remove the words "Kamen Rider" from the title and that wouldn´t change a thing.
Then there's the themes and stories the main Riders go through... hell, even many of the secondary ones. Kamen Rider has always had a lonely hero. Always. There's always been a struggle about identity and what their place in the world is, since they are going through something nobody else is, and they have no one to relate to. I've said this before, but the differences between eras are only cosmetic.
What I'm trying to say here, is that Rider has always kept it's ''conventions'' and what has changed is only visual. They have taken a lot of risks yes, but never breaking the spirit of the show. Just like Sentai, when daring to go with a unique approach, is still about a group of people learning about the power of teamwork, partnership and trust between each other.
Elaborating more on this:Keep in mind that Rider got kicked out to another channel after Amazon which certainly mixed up the formula quite a bit, and even was modified halfway through to be more traditional, although that didn't seem to help much.
In fact, one could argue that Rider has always been very experimental. Something like Amazon changed basically everything about the show aside from keeping Tachibana Tobei around and the "modified human" protagonist. Stronger, although having more traditional villains for the first half, had yet again an untraditional hero (and an super heroine ally) and actually dumped the monster of the week formula for its second half. It was only 1% behind Goranger in ratings, so, the fact that it was airing in a different station seems to have weighted quite a lot to end Rider there.
V3 did the 2-parter episode method mostly associated with Heisei series.
X-Rider, while still having MOTW, was also filled with arcs, not a single episode being filler.
Amazon was also remarkable for not having the appearance of any past Riders.
Not true, and being aimed at kids is no excuse to take a juvenile Kabutack or Robotack approach. You explained well yourself why with your Jurassic Park example.But you know what? I've been looking lately at who the intended audience for things is. So let's see here... We know it isn't a Western audience since we'll have to download fansubs if we want to see it. So like it or not, Japanese KIDS and CHILDREN are the target audience for these shows. Now you could say that they're more like family shows than kids shows, I also like that kind of thinking, but let's face facts. Teens and Adults are more like a second-hand demographic. Most teens have moved on, so you'll be lucky if you can find a few who still like these kinds of shows.
To find a few? I've found thousands in this board alone.
I keep saying it would be nice to have ONE new series where the main character is a cyborg again, not out of hate for the new directions they've taken, but because it would actually be something refreshing given what we've had lately, last time that happened (for a tv series) was more than 20 years ago. Same with a single-Rider series, last time that happened was 13 years ago. Many people craved for a multi-Rider show precisely for those reasons, (it hasn't happened in this scale since 2006).^ Yes, some people don't like it if they think a Sentai season is too different. It just seems to me that the reaction is worse if it's Sentai than Kamen Rider - in a lot of discussions on here and other sites I've seen, it's like one of the worst things you can say about a Sentai is that it's "safe" or "formulaic", while people long for Kamen Rider's past when the heroes were all cyborg "karate bugmen."
A lot of people had requested a change in the formula (two Riders, with the second introduced in the 10s) that had haunted Rider recently.