Why is Sentai expected to take risks but Kamen Rider expected to keep convention?

[Hell Kaiser Andy]

I think it might also have to do with the toy structure needed for Kamen Rider, but looking at the toy catalog I might have to say I think Gaim is taking risks with four Riders from the start.

 

[Bigdog]

I never really understood why this was a complaint. Rider needed to do this to survive. The Showa era shows were locked into their initial formula, and look what happened. Within five years it'd been booted to another channel and dropped. It was revived twice, only to falter again within a couple of years each time. Compare that to the Metal Hero series, which embraced re-inventing itself and lasted for 17 straight years. When Rider finally got the chance to take MH's timeslot, they inherited some of it's tropes, including the constant re-invention. Now we're about to enter the 15th straight year of Kamen Rider. History would suggest that the basic Rider formula wasn't capable of sustaining the franchise in the way that constant change has.

It's the way the Riders were done that dropped the ball on the Showa Riders, not the fact that they kept the same look and ethos.

What needed to happen is for the show to mature and evolve, but still keep its core ethos and even look. By straying way too far from the original show, its like watching a newer iteration of Metal Heroes than a Kamen Rider, with the exceptions being:

-Kuuga 4.
-Agito
-Faiz 5.
-Ryuki ,to an extent. Well not really, so ignore this. 4-5?
-Blade. 1
-Kiva? Have only seen a fancut of Ixa's story and a couple episodes.
-W. Possibly, but I've only seen the one film.
-OOO. 17.
-Fourze. 3.

I've seen a variety of episodes of the Showa from two of Shodai, 1 of V3, 4 of Amazon, 1 of Super 1, 5 of Black, with the exception of X. With reading a bit of the original manga and much of Spirits, I have to say these are the few that do capture the essence of the series without looking like utter crap.

It would be nice if Rider got a consistent theme or storyline like the Showa did, while testing new things and bringing some back, like Amazon and Shin. I kinda wouldn't mind seeing a Rider that was geared differently.

But for Sentai? I can't understand that fanbase in Japan. I believe Go-Busters problem was that after the first ten , I've heard it dragged its feet. In addition, it felt like I already watched an entire season going how too fast the plot moved to get rid of the main villain.

In previous Sentai, like the Showa era, the villains lasted throughout the series and were a consistent threat. They didn't switch , but were more gradual and escalated. This lead for the 80s to get second robots to fight the stronger villains. And eventually , upgraded powers. Also, the impact the villains had was more far reaching and real, which subsequent series lost.

I've seen an episode of Goranger, JAKQ and that crossover, 1 of Denjiman, 5 of Sun Vulcan, 1 of Goggle Five, 2 of Dynaman, 3 of Bioman, 1 or 2 of Liveman, 1 of Turboranger, 6 of Jetman, and 10 to 11 each of Zyu-Kakuranger. After seeing a single episode of Ohranger, I really don't see many until Aba, Deka and Magi, which are just 2-3 episodes each, while 2 for Boukenger, 4 of Geki, 1 of Goonger ,7 for Shinkenger, 7 for Goseiger ,2 for Gokaiger and 11 for Gobusters. Out of Kyoryuger I've only seen 3. I basically seen the majority of each series in samples.

Having no nostalgia for any of these shows, I realized that nonetheless, the urgency for later series went down as the heroes get everything without suspense or much drama, or if it did, didn't so so well much of the time.

 

[NeonZ]

I never really understood why this was a complaint. Rider needed to do this to survive. The Showa era shows were locked into their initial formula, and look what happened. Within five years it'd been booted to another channel and dropped.

Keep in mind that Rider got kicked out to another channel after Amazon which certainly mixed up the formula quite a bit, and even was modified halfway through to be more traditional, although that didn't seem to help much.

In fact, one could argue that Rider has always been very experimental. Something like Amazon changed basically everything about the show aside from keeping Tachibana Tobei around and the "modified human" protagonist. Stronger, although having more traditional villains for the first half, had yet again an untraditional hero (and an super heroine ally) and actually dumped the monster of the week formula for its second half. It was only 1% behind Goranger in ratings, so, the fact that it was airing in a different station seems to have weighted quite a lot to end Rider there.

Black, although going back to basics in several ways, removing the extra equipment and abilities from the last few Riders before it, also added its own twists, like no grunts. Black RX, aside from keeping the same character as the protagonist, was different from Black in every way too, and it was successful. Black RX not getting a sequel has been controversial even in Japan.

Now, you're right in some points. While it attempted to be a traditional show, Skyrider seemed to be a failure, and only was rescued when they turned it into a crossover series. Meanwhile, Super-1, which yet again attempted to be traditional, aside from the "hands", pretty much was a complete failure that got moved to a different timeslot midway through and then left no successor.

Don't forget though, with your metal hero comparison, that Kamen Rider, unlike Sentai and Metal Hero, isn't entirely owned by Toei. So, it's not that surprising that while both Super Sentai and Metal Hero thrived, Rider was sidelined.

 

[SamuraiEchidna]

Why is Rider expected to stay the same, while Sentai expected to take risks? Well, I can only think of one answer...

To me, this is a very ADULT criticism. Normally, Sentai is considered to be the brighter and more kid-friendly show that promotes friendship and teamwork, while Kamen Rider is the darker show that tends to focus on the solo hero and what can come out of rivalries. It's like comparing Superman to Batman, and adults (keep in mind, I use the term "adults" loosely) LOVE Batman. They love when it gets darker and edgier, when the show treats you like an adult, etc. In some respects, like Superman, Sentai is more of an acquired taste.

But you know what? I've been looking lately at who the intended audience for things is. So let's see here... We know it isn't a Western audience since we'll have to download fansubs if we want to see it. So like it or not, Japanese KIDS and CHILDREN are the target audience for these shows. Now you could say that they're more like family shows than kids shows, I also like that kind of thinking, but let's face facts. Teens and Adults are more like a second-hand demographic. Most teens have moved on, so you'll be lucky if you can find a few who still like these kinds of shows. And parents are mostly just watching the shows to monitor what their kids watch, so making fans out of them is pure coincidence and is usually a case-by-case scenario.

For example!
I was watching Jurassic Park: The Lost World with an 11 year old just recently. There was an off-screen death hidden by some logs, but you saw dinosaurs chase after the victim, you heard the screams of agony, and you saw the blood wash up in the ravine when the screams stopped. The child responded to this by saying "Why didn't they show what happened behind the logs?" His parents are okay with letting him see things like Horror movies, by the way. As you can see, subtlety was lost on this kid. And it wasn't the first time either, we saw a few movies together, and things that adults would have understood just went right over his head.

So when it comes to people saying what Tokusatsu properties *SHOULD BE*, I try not to take too much stock in it, unless it's so bad that even the kiddies are complaining. Sure, I've done my share of complaining on the FEW titles I didn't like, but over all, I'm a VERY open-minded guy who doesn't mind trying new things or even returning to more of a status quo. I liked shows like MagiRanger and Fourze; a show that didn't do much to shake things up for Sentai and a show that was drastically different for Kamen Rider! Outside of that, I'll let the ratings in Japan talk for themselves. And as others have said, Toei usually only cares about how much of a profit they can make. After all that, what more needs to be said?

 

[Goty]

Asides from that there is also the case of those self entitled fans that think the creators of the show owe them something and go rage-rambling if a show is not like they want it to be (as was the case with Go-Busters), but i think the world would be a better place if we just ignore those people.

Uhh...you should replace "the case with Go-Busters' by "the case with every new series". Because you see people doing that every year...and the Go-Busters' criticism goes way beyond that.

Anyway..."Sentai expected to take risks and Rider expected to keep conventions"? This is a complicated matter, but i'm not sure that's a general view. Rider has its fair share of conventions that people take for granted ("Henshin", belt, bike, etc), and if at least one of those is missing, people will definitely complain. Sentai is the same, but it has an even higher amount of conventions. While those tropes give Sentai a more formulaic feel, if they're lacking, there will obviously be a lot of complaints too. Everyone knows that, we've been there. So what kinds of "risks' are they expected to take, exactly? Only thing i know, they can't just abandon what fans came to love and expect from Sentai. As someone who likes it more than Rider, i'm pretty sure of that.
Anyway, a series can easily be fresh, fun and inventive while keeping the Sentai essence. Maybe the people who expect Sentai to take more risks, change and leave that essence behind aren't exactly the biggest fans of the genre.

 

[lazycoconut]

^ Yes, some people don't like it if they think a Sentai season is too different. It just seems to me that the reaction is worse if it's Sentai than Kamen Rider - in a lot of discussions on here and other sites I've seen, it's like one of the worst things you can say about a Sentai is that it's "safe" or "formulaic", while people long for Kamen Rider's past when the heroes were all cyborg "karate bugmen."

 

[shamrocknroll]

Beetle?

Buddy, I think you've gotten your insects mixed up. The original Riders were Grasshoppers.

:O_O: Wow that was a brainfart there. My mistake.

 

[Burkion]

:O_O: Wow that was a brainfart there. My mistake.

Tis cool.

Stronger was a beetle to be fair. Amazon was a lizard thing. Sky Rider was a moth.

 

[NeonZ]

Skyrider is a locust grasshopper.

 

[Burkion]

Really? I always heard he was based on some kind of moth.