Why is everybody and their dog considered a rider these days?

[Shougo B'Stard]

But nutball, loser a-holes like Asakura or Kusaka don't deserve to be called a "Kamen Rider." Ryuki just wiped its nose with the name, when Toei could have easily come up with a different "Blahblah Rider" title for the characters that weren't Shinji.

On top of that, there's a bunch of twerpy actors who played those lesser characters who shouldn't be able to say they got to be a Kamen Rider.

 

[Forever Knight]

How don't people understand that Ryuki was pretty much a Kamen Rider War.

A Kamen Rider War would tell me that there would be a bunch of Riders in it, not 1 Rider with 400 other villians.

 

[555]

well, to me, At least Ryuki has the bug-eyes and rides a bike (though his design is a dragon) and 555, he has feelers (revelation that he's a shark instead of a firefly) and still looks like a bug. As for Momotaros, Although his design is a peach, but the peach split into 2, with feelers extending out, makes him look like a praying mantis. Well, Kiva... Big eyes but most importantly, he rides a chopper. Amazon, although a chameleon, his still had bug-like eyes and a bike.

But I really cannot convince myself to call Hibiki a Masked Rider. Don't get me wrong. I like the show, but I still don't think he fits in the category... Granted, he's masked, but then he doesn't resemble a bug, nor ride a bike (well, he learnt to ride a bike later due to rumors of viewers complaining he didn't).

As for Apollo Geist, He's a villain. Masked Riders are supposed to be the good guys. If he can be considered a Masked Rider, then the Shocker Troopers can be Masked Riders too, cos they wear masks and ride bikes to. And that'll defeat the purpose of delivering the message of Masked Riders being the allies of justice.

Of course, arguing about Kaixa, TheBee etc that they aren't exactly good guys, but then the concept is that they are rogue Riders. They could be the good guys if they wanted, but they stray from their paths.

Shadowmoon is a different thing altogether. He's a bug, he owns Battlehopper, too, in a sense, but he was born evil.

Maybe you all can say that I'm too fixated about the overall image as being 'insectisized', but look at it this way. Would you still call an Ultra, an Ultra if you remove the salted egg-like eyes, the color timer and the dorsal-fin-like thingee on their heads?

 

[Shougo B'Stard]

How don't people understand that Ryuki was pretty much a Kamen Rider War.

A Kamen Rider War would tell me that there would be a bunch of Riders in it, not 1 Rider with 400 other villians.

Well, maybe Yasuko Kobayashi was never qualified to write about a "Rider war" in the first place, since she claimed to never have even seen a Kamen Rider show prior to Ryuki.

You could have still had the same show if, like, the other Riders were just called "Rider" or "Mirror Rider" or "Card Rider" or something cornball like that, and have Shinji be the only one who's the real "Kamen" of the group. Although the execution was all over the place, the basic idea is sort of interesting -- a corrupt guy running around and giving these powers to even more corrupt individuals, each with varying agendas, but most of the characters shouldn't have been named "Kamen Rider." Toei seemed like they used to want to avoid calling the gray or outright evil characters who could transform a "Kamen Rider." There wasn't Kamen Rider Apollo or Kamen Rider Shadow Moon or Kamen Rider Another Agito.

And, yeah, Akiyama didn't deserve to be called "Kamen Rider," either. Pretty much just Shinji and Tezuka. There could have been a little homage to V3 where Shinji gave Tezuka the Kamen Rider name.

 

[Bennu]

Well, if one of them is a cold-blooded murderer who's killed a shitload of people and the other is a gentle, kind-hearted guy who puts his own life on the line to save someone he doesn't even know, there is kind of a difference there.

I think most people are smart enough to know that no matter what they say here, it changes nothing. Toei does what Toei wants.

Like I said, I'm personally split over the whole thing. I don't particularly like that someone like Arc gets to be in the same boat as the heroic Riders, because now the exclusive club o' justice is suddenly something else. Maybe it's harder to understand if you're coming into it the opposite way, but as someone who grew up with Riders = Heroes, it's a jolt to the system.

But on the other hand, I do like that as a result of that, it reminds me of just *how* good those heroic Riders truly are, because of what they did and what they were, not just because they're a Kamen Riders. I actually like being challenged like that.

Of course none of that means jack ****. I can understand that. But I see no harm in just talking about it and sharing views. If you think my opinion is terrible, that's kind of disheartening to read, but I'll live.

That's why you're considered THE Rider fan:thumbs:

That is why I now think one thing Ryuki could have done was not call the Riders 'Riders' but something else. Shinji, upon making his choice to rebel against Kanzaki, declares himself a Kamen Rider, a name he alone comes up with. That would have been a further homage to what already was a new twist on an old formula.

You know, that's not such a bad idea.:buttrock:

 

[MattComix]

Agreed.

Do you see me complaining with Disney PR and how EVERY fucking zord is called a Megazord now. No u don't.

That's not the same thing really. "Zord" doesn't mean a whole lot else outside of it's connection to Zordon and being the shows catch-all term for big robots/power animals.

Part of the point of the conversation here is that is more to the name Kamen Rider than being just a technical term or a brand name and wether or not that is something that should be respected in how the creators at Toei use it.

 

[NeonZ]

I think Kabuto handled multiple Riders better than Ryuuki.

In Ryuuki, many Riders were basically just (human) monsters of the week (Scissors, Gai, Tiger and Imperer, especially) and many weren't "heroes" from any point of view (see Zolda and Ouja).

In Kabuto, there was no outright villain Rider and no Rider was just some random extra for body count. I know some people don't like how some weren't important for the overall storyline, but they were never pointless to their own personal stories, unlike many of Ryuuki's Riders.

Decade handled the multiple Rider concept even better, I thought. Although many AU Riders initially had some character flaw, they all were genuinely heroic at one point or the other. I'd like to see another Decade-style show only with a bunch of original Riders and worlds, and more than 2 episodes at each world, although I guess that wouldn't be feasible due to the necessity of enemy suits.

 

[Scissors]

The thing I liked about Ryuki, was that it kept the "Being a Rider is a curse" thing, which had been present in most of the Showa shows.
This is one thing I really don't like about the new KR shows.
In the old shows, you had this hero, who had been turned into a freak of nature, and could never live a normal life again. He would fight, knowing that he would gain nothing.

These days, the only conflicts that the Riders have to go through, are related to their lack of confidence.
They can throw away their henshin devices and say "I quit!"
I think people like Hongo and Kotaro would have wished many times that they could have done the same.
Even if they didn't turn into their Rider forms, their altered bodies would still give them problems in their daily life.

So, frankly, I think that there are many Kamen Riders these days that doesn’t deserve their titles. In the old days, there was no time to be depressed and whine all the time. People like Ryoutarou needs to be put in Showa Rider Boot camps

 

[aphroboy]

How don't people understand that Ryuki was pretty much a Kamen Rider War.

A Kamen Rider War would tell me that there would be a bunch of Riders in it, not 1 Rider with 400 other villians.

Ryuki's Rider war format could still be retained without everyone being called a rider. You could have them as some other names eg Vent Warriors or something like that and it would still be the same show. Everyone was so conveniently called Kamen Rider that it did'nt really mean anything. The rider war was just simply man vs man till the last one left. You don't even need kamen rider in the equation.

 

[Forever Knight]

That's not the same thing really. "Zord" doesn't mean a whole lot else outside of it's connection to Zordon and being the shows catch-all term for big robots/power animals.

It's the exacat same thing. Some think the Rider name is thrown around too much and I think that just because there is a combo it doesn't need to be always called a Megazord.