Who's your favorite Phase 2 Heisei Rider?

[Glamador]

other recent shows are guilty of being much worse than Drive has been so far.

Why do people keep saying this? Based on what criteria? Because there are a hundred ways that Drive has been bad. Usually I harp on about how I dislike the narrative itself, or am displeased with the characters or their personalities in and of themselves and how that turns me off of a show. The only show I can think of that I find so distasteful on a tonal-shift/narrative-flow/quality-consistency level is Black, which as others will tell you, has plenty of other redeeming factors. But I can't think of a single other Rider show which has been so poor on a pure camera-work, directorial-focus, or character-depth level.

Drive is literally just terribly-shot, terribly-acted, terribly-directed trash with no plot to speak of.

Whether you like Drive/Tomari the rider is a totally separate concern. Heck, as much as I badmouth Black, I still adore Minami Koutaro. That guy is awesome. And I like Wizard as a Rider and a character fine too. But saying that other shows have been worse than Drive....ugh...I feel sick.

 

[kuroihikari]

... with no plot to speak of.

If you've seen the show, you know this is flat-out wrong.

 

[HurricaneDragon]

If you've seen the show, you know this is flat-out wrong.

Even though I've got a better opinion of the show, it... really kind of doesn't. Maybe "no plot to speak of" is a little much, but right now, we're still largely in the dark - however, I feel like this is intentional. This is a show about a cop/detective/person/thing, and I've had the feeling even when I thought the show was irredeemable crap that it was being written this way for the sake of mystery. We were essentially in Shinnosuke's shoes along with him, learning about the story/world as he did, and he didn't really have much more to go on until the recent episodes with the Heart confrontation.

 

[kuroihikari]

We were essentially in Shinnosuke's shoes along with him, learning about the story/world as he did, and he didn't really have much more to go on until the recent episodes with the Heart confrontation.

Then that means there is a plot, doesn't it? Not saying it to you, because you pointed out the problem, but people here have either unreasonable standards or make exaggerated claims that end out to be plainly incorrect.

 

[Hangyakuno]

Then that means there is a plot, doesn't it? Not saying it to you, because you pointed out the problem, but people here have either unreasonable standards or make exaggerated claims that end out to be plainly incorrect.

I think this is the reason

Which was paced horribly, so it really does feel like it's more "filler than plot". >>

This is his reason for ToQger but this can be applied too for Drive. Same problem happen with Wizard, I just hope Drive will not meet same disappointing end, Sanjo tend to infodumped us though, so atleast we gonna get longer story.

 

[NeonZ]

I really don't get the feeling that there's any mystery to be unwrapped in Drive right now. The plan of the Roidmudes seems to be just to organize another large scale attack by making more of them evolve, not any kind of mysterious ritual or complex method of conquest. There are some elements in the dark that might lead to something more complex, like the missing 001 Roidmude, but I don't think the band we've seen so far is really carrying any mystery.

 

[HurricaneDragon]

Then that means there is a plot, doesn't it? Not saying it to you, because you pointed out the problem, but people here have either unreasonable standards or make exaggerated claims that end out to be plainly incorrect.

It does, the problem is that because of how it's going about showing it to us, it has to keep the plot away until we're shown it. I think it also ties into the show's theme of motivation/"drive," or is meant to - as we learn more, Shinnosuke is likely going to get more and more motivated (as is already the case).

I really don't get the feeling that there's any mystery to be unwrapped in Drive right now. The plan of the Roidmudes seems to be just to organize another large scale attack by making more of them evolve, not any kind of mysterious ritual or complex method of conquest. There are some elements in the dark that might lead to something more complex, like the missing 001 Roidmude, but I don't think the band we've seen so far is really carrying any mystery.

That's only been (relatively) recent, I think, hasn't it? That's what I mean - Shinnosuke certainly doesn't have that information, and we've been slowly learning what they're up to episode by episode. We know all that now, but I don't think we had all of that at all even as "late" in as 6 if I remember correctly.

 

[kuroihikari]

I really don't get the feeling that there's any mystery to be unwrapped in Drive right now. The plan of the Roidmudes seems to be just to organize another large scale attack by making more of them evolve, not any kind of mysterious ritual or complex method of conquest. There are some elements in the dark that might lead to something more complex, like the missing 001 Roidmude, but I don't think the band we've seen so far is really carrying any mystery.

It's not really that simple. The Roidmudes, or Heart at least, apparently aren't really about conquest, but about surviving until they reach a certain goal: That they get a certain number of Roidmudes evolved. And what they plan to do after that we aren't sure yet. They don't care much about rogue Roidmudes indiscriminately causing mischief and doing things that don't actually lead them towards that goal.

Plus, it doesn't feel to me that they all have the same goal for the endgame.

That's only been (relatively) recent, I think, hasn't it? That's what I mean - Shinnosuke certainly doesn't have that information, and we've been slowly learning what they're up to episode by episode. We know all that now, but I don't think we had all of that at all even as "late" in as 6 if I remember correctly.

True. It's being revealed slowly, and that's part of the plot of any detective show.

 

[Glamador]

The Roidmudes, or Heart at least, apparently aren't really about conquest, but about surviving until they reach a certain goal: That they get a certain number of Roidmudes evolved. And what they plan to do after that we aren't sure yet. They don't care much about rogue Roidmudes indiscriminately causing mischief and doing things that don't actually lead them towards that goal.

This feels like reaching to me as far as a description of "plot". It's a tenuous suspicion about the Roidmudes' collective motivation, if anything. But they have done, discussed, and alluded to *nothing* that provides any information to the viewer about them.

All we have is mystery for the sake of mystery *in place* of plot, so far. Admittedly I am a week behind, forgive me. But as I said in my other post, while the narrative of a show is *usually* my biggest sticking point (as with Black), it is the COMPOSITION of Drive that has me repulsed by it at this point. The painful attempts at humour, the camerawork, the acting, the directorial decisions, the way they use CGI, and most frustrating of all, the characters' collective personality "quirks"...

Every time the police captain jumps out of his chair, squeals like a girl, and makes *the same joke he has made in every episode* about his horoscope...it's like being stabbed in the eyes, ears, and brain simultaneously with needles.

For further examples see:
The detective's jumping out of his chair and acting surprised (with the same stupid look on his face)
The otaku being grotesque to look at (have you seen his face in close-ups? *hurk*)
Shinnosuke "getting in top gear" (in every episode!)


BUT, like I said in my last post. All of that is completely irrelevant to this thread!

What matters for this poll is the rider himself, Shinnosuke, his suit, and his array of abilities. And, unfortunately unlike Black, I don't like those things about Drive either. His Speed Form *would* look good without the tire in his chest, but his other forms are hideous. Shinnosuke aalllmost has me liking him when he's making Spider-Man-esque quips at his enemies and generally acting aloof and badass...but he always finds some way to ruin it. And his painful naivety is...well, painful.

I never want to dislike a Rider show. But sheesh. They haven't ticked so many of my "wrong" boxes since Ryuki. I even liked Kiva & Fourze. I EVEN LIKED THE CGI IN HIBIKI. Dunno how this show could screw up so badly.

 

[NeonZ]

It's not really that simple. The Roidmudes, or Heart at least, apparently aren't really about conquest, but about surviving until they reach a certain goal: That they get a certain number of Roidmudes evolved. And what they plan to do after that we aren't sure yet. They don't care much about rogue Roidmudes indiscriminately causing mischief and doing things that don't actually lead them towards that goal.

Heart outright told Drive that they'll evolve more so that one day they can rule humanity when they faced each other in episode 10. That's it. In previous episodes they also complained about the evolved Roidmudes lost. They just want more power, either by number of evolved roidmudes or to evolve further in order to conquer the world. There's no mystery in that direction.