Who's your favorite Phase 2 Heisei Rider?

Based purely on Riders, huh? Now this is a tough call. Including Heisei makes it easy (Hibiki for the win), but out of just these guys, that's a very tough decision. Despite my feelings for the show, as a character, Haruto is probably one of my favorites, and likewise, I really like Gentarou too - and Eiji and Shotaro will always be up there... Kouta is pretty great as well, and man, Shinnosuke is really growing on me...

Okay it's really more of a massive tie that Gentarou and Shinnosuke only barely are at the bottom of (Shin more than Gen) but I'll go with Gaim.
 

Japaneseseriesfan

A simple passerby...
Personally, I like W. But I voted for Gaim because the character dynamics between Kouta/Kaito/Mitchy/Takatora did it for me. I was waiting for something like this since Ryuki/Blade. Kabuto had that going for it until Tendou decided it was cool to steal everyone else's Zector and become OP as hell.

OOO would have had my vote had it not spent so much time fooling around over nonsense arcs.

As for the remaining 3, I couldn't get past 10 episodes of Fourze, dropped Wizard after Hyper Beast, and Drive (which is the best of the 3 so far for me, is still running so I can't decide yet, although I like the dynamics between him, Chase, and Mach).
 

shamrocknroll

The Ranger with the Cowbell
Fourze

I'd love to have Gentarou as a buddy. He'd be a riot. Imagine bringing him to the pub and seeing what happens to him as he slowly becomes more and more inebriated. He'll be the heart of the party, undoubtedly overshadowing you of course, but it would unlikely be a dull moment with him around. Other than his delightfully sunny outlook to life, his combination of intellectual vapidity and street smarts makes him a very endearing lead character to stick around with for nearly fifty episodes and a few movies. I want a buddy like Gentarou. You can literally stop his heart, and he'll still get back up, forgive you, AND empathise with you.

You took the words out of my mouth. Gentarou is my homeboy plus I dig his suit when he becomes a teacher.
 

Smilodon

Friendship and the Cosmos.
Gentaro was really good when Nakajima wrote him, as he was really intuitive and his friendliness wasn't overbearing or annoying whereas when he wasn't written by Nakajima, he came off as this blunt, young Hidari Shotaro type.
 
But I voted for Gaim because the character dynamics between Kouta/Kaito/Mitchy/Takatora did it for me. I was waiting for something like this since Ryuki/Blade.
Agreed. I love multiple Rider shows so much - hopefully the three guys in Drive at least emulate that a little.

Kabuto had that going for it until Tendou decided it was cool to steal everyone else's Zector and become OP as hell.
Is that really a fault of the character, though? It's not like Kabuto went around ripping everyone's stuff off, and the things went right back to them after he did his finisher. Most main Riders become OP as hell anyway - he certainly did it more than others, especially in particular contrast to the other guys in his show, but blame that on how the toy situation and how they had to write it in worked out, I say.

OOO would have had my vote had it not spent so much time fooling around over nonsense arcs.
I call 'em character focused arcs myself, but to each their own.

Gentaro was really good when Nakajima wrote him, as he was really intuitive and his friendliness wasn't overbearing or annoying whereas when he wasn't written by Nakajima, he came off as this blunt, young Hidari Shotaro type.
I haven't looked at the credits to be sure, but if this equates to early series Gen = good, later series Gen = not always as good, then I definitely agree.
 

NeonZ

New Member
Although I wasn't satisfied by its ending, I guess I'd pick Gaim overall. Gentaro was fun sometimes, and his bombastic personality makes Fourze stand out even as just a suit, but his character wasn't consistent enough. He was really irritating in the Magnet States arc and was written as stupid in a couple of others, like Gemini.

I never care much for Eiji or Haruto. I liked Shotaro, but I think Kouta just had the opportunity of being a character in a series that allowed him to have more interesting interactions.

Personally, I like W. But I voted for Gaim because the character dynamics between Kouta/Kaito/Mitchy/Takatora did it for me. I was waiting for something like this since Ryuki/Blade. Kabuto had that going for it until Tendou decided it was cool to steal everyone else's Zector and become OP as hell.

It's kind of sad since Kabuto already had an arc that pointed out Tendo stealing Zecter's was a bad idea, but they had to introduce the Perfect Zecter anyway... Looking back though, that arc was in the 30s, so it's odd that it was even there. They should have known about the Perfect Zecter already by that point. I wonder if it was a jab at Bandai?

If they had done that story after the Perfect Zecter's introduction, it'd be really obvious, but doing it before that makes it more subtle... although it's just another point that makes Kabuto feel inconsistent.
 

BLASTMATIC

Lurker
OOO with Wizard in close second.

I'm a go wit Gaim but my top 4 Phase 2 Heisei riders go

Gaim
OOO
Wizard
Fourze

ohnoes.jpg
 

skywing-TM

Member
As someone who likes detective/detective-like characters, Drive definitely got my vote. Tomari's a badass cop, doing his job in a badass way. Tomari being lazy? Doesn't matter. He managed to superbly solve the case at the end of the day, with his own ability, and that's what matters for me.
Sure there's Shotaro in the poll but honestly, I think Tomari deserve a credit for doing this without someone like Philip. Not saying that having Philip helping Shotaro is a bad thing (hey, you gotta use every resources efficiently right?) but, solving it with his own way gives a big plus point IMHO :laugh:
I'm not gonna touch upon the whole "doubting at humans/justice" aspect of his character since, IMO, most main Rider have this in different ways.
More plus points for wise-cracking against his enemy: As someone who reads Spider-man comics, I find this is very amusing. It makes battles a bit more fun no? :anime:
...
...
Am I the only one who genuinely likes Drive/Tomari? :sly: lol
 

Clocktower

Member
I'm not surprised. Ryoma Takeuchi, quite frankly, isn't very charismatic an actor for the role, and Shinnosuke is often outclassed by the very power of Chris Peppler's voice blaring from his crotch area. Neither is he very interesting as a protagonist if his one standout trait (sans his little backstory with his old cop partner) is his need to regularly find enough motivation just to properly do his job.

(My reasoning is quite dependent on people in this thread voting based on the titular character of their respective shows and not on the show itself)

Yeah, I'd put his lack of popularity in the poll down to the fact the show only started recently and there's been quite a bit of resistance too, which I think will cool down more as the show goes on. People have been unusually critical of the show, other recent shows are guilty of being much worse than Drive has been so far.

I'd say Shinnosuke is at least more interesting than Haruto or Eiji were and he's probably the most relatable character since Shotaro.
 

Glamador

Member
other recent shows are guilty of being much worse than Drive has been so far.

Why do people keep saying this? Based on what criteria? Because there are a hundred ways that Drive has been bad. Usually I harp on about how I dislike the narrative itself, or am displeased with the characters or their personalities in and of themselves and how that turns me off of a show. The only show I can think of that I find so distasteful on a tonal-shift/narrative-flow/quality-consistency level is Black, which as others will tell you, has plenty of other redeeming factors. But I can't think of a single other Rider show which has been so poor on a pure camera-work, directorial-focus, or character-depth level.

Drive is literally just terribly-shot, terribly-acted, terribly-directed trash with no plot to speak of.

Whether you like Drive/Tomari the rider is a totally separate concern. Heck, as much as I badmouth Black, I still adore Minami Koutaro. That guy is awesome. And I like Wizard as a Rider and a character fine too. But saying that other shows have been worse than Drive....ugh...I feel sick.
 
If you've seen the show, you know this is flat-out wrong.
Even though I've got a better opinion of the show, it... really kind of doesn't. Maybe "no plot to speak of" is a little much, but right now, we're still largely in the dark - however, I feel like this is intentional. This is a show about a cop/detective/person/thing, and I've had the feeling even when I thought the show was irredeemable crap that it was being written this way for the sake of mystery. We were essentially in Shinnosuke's shoes along with him, learning about the story/world as he did, and he didn't really have much more to go on until the recent episodes with the Heart confrontation.
 

kuroihikari

Member
We were essentially in Shinnosuke's shoes along with him, learning about the story/world as he did, and he didn't really have much more to go on until the recent episodes with the Heart confrontation.

Then that means there is a plot, doesn't it? Not saying it to you, because you pointed out the problem, but people here have either unreasonable standards or make exaggerated claims that end out to be plainly incorrect.
 

Hangyakuno

Lurker
Then that means there is a plot, doesn't it? Not saying it to you, because you pointed out the problem, but people here have either unreasonable standards or make exaggerated claims that end out to be plainly incorrect.

I think this is the reason
Which was paced horribly, so it really does feel like it's more "filler than plot". >>
This is his reason for ToQger but this can be applied too for Drive. Same problem happen with Wizard, I just hope Drive will not meet same disappointing end, Sanjo tend to infodumped us though, so atleast we gonna get longer story.
 

NeonZ

New Member
I really don't get the feeling that there's any mystery to be unwrapped in Drive right now. The plan of the Roidmudes seems to be just to organize another large scale attack by making more of them evolve, not any kind of mysterious ritual or complex method of conquest. There are some elements in the dark that might lead to something more complex, like the missing 001 Roidmude, but I don't think the band we've seen so far is really carrying any mystery.
 
Then that means there is a plot, doesn't it? Not saying it to you, because you pointed out the problem, but people here have either unreasonable standards or make exaggerated claims that end out to be plainly incorrect.
It does, the problem is that because of how it's going about showing it to us, it has to keep the plot away until we're shown it. I think it also ties into the show's theme of motivation/"drive," or is meant to - as we learn more, Shinnosuke is likely going to get more and more motivated (as is already the case).

I really don't get the feeling that there's any mystery to be unwrapped in Drive right now. The plan of the Roidmudes seems to be just to organize another large scale attack by making more of them evolve, not any kind of mysterious ritual or complex method of conquest. There are some elements in the dark that might lead to something more complex, like the missing 001 Roidmude, but I don't think the band we've seen so far is really carrying any mystery.
That's only been (relatively) recent, I think, hasn't it? That's what I mean - Shinnosuke certainly doesn't have that information, and we've been slowly learning what they're up to episode by episode. We know all that now, but I don't think we had all of that at all even as "late" in as 6 if I remember correctly.
 

kuroihikari

Member
I really don't get the feeling that there's any mystery to be unwrapped in Drive right now. The plan of the Roidmudes seems to be just to organize another large scale attack by making more of them evolve, not any kind of mysterious ritual or complex method of conquest. There are some elements in the dark that might lead to something more complex, like the missing 001 Roidmude, but I don't think the band we've seen so far is really carrying any mystery.

It's not really that simple. The Roidmudes, or Heart at least, apparently aren't really about conquest, but about surviving until they reach a certain goal: That they get a certain number of Roidmudes evolved. And what they plan to do after that we aren't sure yet. They don't care much about rogue Roidmudes indiscriminately causing mischief and doing things that don't actually lead them towards that goal.

Plus, it doesn't feel to me that they all have the same goal for the endgame.

That's only been (relatively) recent, I think, hasn't it? That's what I mean - Shinnosuke certainly doesn't have that information, and we've been slowly learning what they're up to episode by episode. We know all that now, but I don't think we had all of that at all even as "late" in as 6 if I remember correctly.

True. It's being revealed slowly, and that's part of the plot of any detective show.
 

Glamador

Member
The Roidmudes, or Heart at least, apparently aren't really about conquest, but about surviving until they reach a certain goal: That they get a certain number of Roidmudes evolved. And what they plan to do after that we aren't sure yet. They don't care much about rogue Roidmudes indiscriminately causing mischief and doing things that don't actually lead them towards that goal.

This feels like reaching to me as far as a description of "plot". It's a tenuous suspicion about the Roidmudes' collective motivation, if anything. But they have done, discussed, and alluded to *nothing* that provides any information to the viewer about them.

All we have is mystery for the sake of mystery *in place* of plot, so far. Admittedly I am a week behind, forgive me. But as I said in my other post, while the narrative of a show is *usually* my biggest sticking point (as with Black), it is the COMPOSITION of Drive that has me repulsed by it at this point. The painful attempts at humour, the camerawork, the acting, the directorial decisions, the way they use CGI, and most frustrating of all, the characters' collective personality "quirks"...

Every time the police captain jumps out of his chair, squeals like a girl, and makes *the same joke he has made in every episode* about his horoscope...it's like being stabbed in the eyes, ears, and brain simultaneously with needles.

For further examples see:
The detective's jumping out of his chair and acting surprised (with the same stupid look on his face)
The otaku being grotesque to look at (have you seen his face in close-ups? *hurk*)
Shinnosuke "getting in top gear" (in every episode!)


BUT, like I said in my last post. All of that is completely irrelevant to this thread!

What matters for this poll is the rider himself, Shinnosuke, his suit, and his array of abilities. And, unfortunately unlike Black, I don't like those things about Drive either. His Speed Form *would* look good without the tire in his chest, but his other forms are hideous. Shinnosuke aalllmost has me liking him when he's making Spider-Man-esque quips at his enemies and generally acting aloof and badass...but he always finds some way to ruin it. And his painful naivety is...well, painful.

I never want to dislike a Rider show. But sheesh. They haven't ticked so many of my "wrong" boxes since Ryuki. I even liked Kiva & Fourze. I EVEN LIKED THE CGI IN HIBIKI. Dunno how this show could screw up so badly.
 

NeonZ

New Member
It's not really that simple. The Roidmudes, or Heart at least, apparently aren't really about conquest, but about surviving until they reach a certain goal: That they get a certain number of Roidmudes evolved. And what they plan to do after that we aren't sure yet. They don't care much about rogue Roidmudes indiscriminately causing mischief and doing things that don't actually lead them towards that goal.

Heart outright told Drive that they'll evolve more so that one day they can rule humanity when they faced each other in episode 10. That's it. In previous episodes they also complained about the evolved Roidmudes lost. They just want more power, either by number of evolved roidmudes or to evolve further in order to conquer the world. There's no mystery in that direction.
 

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