Who's your favorite Phase 2 Heisei Rider?

Toku Prime

Well-Known Member
Wait, we're calling Neo-Heisei Phase 2 now? When was that a thing? It reminds me of the MCU :sweat:.
The phrase 'Phase 2' has been around as long as 'Neo-Heisei'. The explaination for it that I heard was that after Kiva finished Toei decided (for unknown reasons) to disband the crew that had worked on Kamen Rider since Kuuga started and create a new team to work on Decade, which has worked on the Rider shows ever since. The Japanese fandom apparently refer to shows made by this new production team with a phrase that translates into English as Phase Two Heisei.

Neo-Heisei seems to be a term coined by the English-speaking fanbase and isn't based on any behind-the-scenes reasoning but on a perceived change in the tropes and trends in Rider. I remember that when it first started being used people had to clarify what they thought the first show of this era was, because half the people who used it thought Den-O was the first and the other half thought Double was. The latter seems to have won out but to me it seemed like the fact that it was so debatable shows how weak it is as a term. :sweat: At least phase two is based on a solid change in how the show is made.
 

ooo5

Member
The phrase 'Phase 2' has been around as long as 'Neo-Heisei'. The explaination for it that I heard was that after Kiva finished Toei decided (for unknown reasons) to disband the crew that had worked on Kamen Rider since Kuuga started and create a new team to work on Decade, which has worked on the Rider shows ever since. The Japanese fandom apparently refer to shows made by this new production team with a phrase that translates into English as Phase Two Heisei.

Neo-Heisei seems to be a term coined by the English-speaking fanbase and isn't based on any behind-the-scenes reasoning but on a perceived change in the tropes and trends in Rider. I remember that when it first started being used people had to clarify what they thought the first show of this era was, because half the people who used it thought Den-O was the first and the other half thought Double was. The latter seems to have won out but to me it seemed like the fact that it was so debatable shows how weak it is as a term. :sweat: At least phase two is based on a solid change in how the show is made.
Wow, can't believe this is the first time I'm seeing it used if it's been the phrase to refer to the post-Kiva shows around the same time Neo-Heisei has. Even before I joined and was just lurking around the forum, Neo-Heisei seemed to be the go-to phrase for referring to the shows from Double onward. But yeah, Phase 2 seems like a more official declaration of a shift in Rider, or the next generation, compared to Neo-Heisei :sweat:.
 

Toku Prime

Well-Known Member
Wow, can't believe this is the first time I'm seeing it used if it's been the phrase to refer to the post-Kiva shows around the same time Neo-Heisei has. Even before I joined and was just lurking around the forum, Neo-Heisei seemed to be the go-to phrase for referring to the shows from Double onward. But yeah, Phase 2 seems like a more official declaration of a shift in Rider, or the next generation, compared to Neo-Heisei :sweat:.
I must admit I do like 'Phase 2' just because it feels like something rooted in a solid shift in production. Of course, I can't read Japanese so I can't tell if the crew credits list different people or whether the Japanese fans actually use the term. I'm just going by what other people have said and hoping it isn't all getting mixed up like a game of telephone. :sweat: There doesn't seem to be much interaction between the Japanese-speaking and English-speaking fans, so just because a term is used by them it doesn't mean it would get picked up by us. Phase 2 only occasionally gets used so most people will be more familiar with (and use) Neo-Heisei. Either way, it's just fan terminology.
 

kuroihikari

Member
Voted Gentarou. He and the double Riders are the only ones who didn't "sell-out" (as in fell into the pitfalls of their powers), and for Double's case, one of them started out special (Philip), while Gentarou was just an ordinary person with an unconventional outlook. I'd have chosen Eiji second because losing himself wasn't really by choice.
 

Shougo B'Stard

Would like to change his avatar
The explaination for it that I heard was that after Kiva finished Toei decided (for unknown reasons) to disband the crew that had worked on Kamen Rider since Kuuga started and create a new team to work on Decade, which has worked on the Rider shows ever since.

Well, you should smack whoever told you that in the head, because it's not entirely accurate.

Decade itself was done by the usual suspects -- Shirakura, director Ryuta Tasaki, Blade and Kabuto's main writers. I think Shirakura decided to make (what was supposed to be) the big blowout anniversary show his swan song, but a lot of the people who have worked on Rider since Decade have been working on Rider since at least Agito. Directors have pretty much stayed the same. Even when a "new" chief producer enters, they've had some Rider experience -- Tsukada was a sub-producer on Agito, Utsunomiya was a sub-producer on Faiz and Blade. (Heck, I think even Drive's Ohmori had worked on Hibiki and Den-O as an assistant producer...IIRC.)

And then OOO got Takebe, who had done Kiva, and Ryuki/Den-O's Kobayashi to write it. So...it's still a lot of the same people, there was no big agenda to replace staff with new blood, I don't think the term has anything to do with staff. The only main changes are in who they'll often get as head writer, but even then...an anime guy like Riku Sanjou, while making his toku debut with W, wasn't as drastic of a choice as producer Jun Hikasa made by getting Shoji Imai, who only had experience writing dramas, for Blade.

I think the Japanese broke down the way they refer to certain Riders based on when Decade changed the premiere dates; it's from W on that I've seen the "Heisei Part 2" thing used for. W certainly brought a new, cartoony, more Bandai-y style to the franchise that's easier to distinguish from its predecessors. Only Den-O would have fallen easily in line with the Rider shows made since W.
 

Toku Prime

Well-Known Member
Well, you should smack whoever told you that in the head, because it's not entirely accurate.
Mass firings never affect the people in charge, just the little guys underneath. I wasn't referring to the recognisable names at the top of the tree. I meant camera operators, boom mic holders, lighting guys, electricians and so on. You know, the people whose names we don't know. As I said in my last post, I can't read the end credits, so maybe they didn't change. Only relating what I heard.
W certainly brought a new, cartoony, more Bandai-y style to the franchise that's easier to distinguish from its predecessors. Only Den-O would have fallen easily in line with the Rider shows made since W.
I'd have to disagree with that. Especially the "Bandai-y" part. The Shu Doran says hi.
 

Artisan

Blade Adept
Fourze

I'd love to have Gentarou as a buddy. He'd be a riot. Imagine bringing him to the pub and seeing what happens to him as he slowly becomes more and more inebriated. He'll be the heart of the party, undoubtedly overshadowing you of course, but it would unlikely be a dull moment with him around. Other than his delightfully sunny outlook to life, his combination of intellectual vapidity and street smarts makes him a very endearing lead character to stick around with for nearly fifty episodes and a few movies. I want a buddy like Gentarou. You can literally stop his heart, and he'll still get back up, forgive you, AND empathise with you.
 

Artisan

Blade Adept
No love for Drive XD

I'm not surprised. Ryoma Takeuchi, quite frankly, isn't very charismatic an actor for the role, and Shinnosuke is often outclassed by the very power of Chris Peppler's voice blaring from his crotch area. Neither is he very interesting as a protagonist if his one standout trait (sans his little backstory with his old cop partner) is his need to regularly find enough motivation just to properly do his job.

(My reasoning is quite dependent on people in this thread voting based on the titular character of their respective shows and not on the show itself)
 

kuroihikari

Member
Shinnosuke is the straight man in an otherwise hyperactive show. These are typically the least popular characters in any TV show. He's probably the Rider who I can mostly empathize with, but I'd have to admit that characters with personalities like him don't really stand out nor are supposed to.

Of course, the show still has a long way to go.
 

Hangyakuno

Lurker
Shinnosuke is the straight man in an otherwise hyperactive show. These are typically the least popular characters in any TV show. He's probably the Rider who I can mostly empathize with, but I'd have to admit that characters with personalities like him don't really stand out nor are supposed to.

Of course, the show still has a long way to go.

Shinnosuke is the lazy-ass straight man in an otherwise hyperactive show.
Everything about Tomari can be tied to word "lazy". That is why sometimes their gag can't work well.
 

kuroihikari

Member
Everything about Tomari can be tied to word "lazy".

No, not really. He was an elite before the slowdown, and is still a pretty good cop when he needs to. Clearly he has something mental that's preventing him from being motivated. It's not something you can just qualify as being lazy. It's like saying everything about every person in the world afflicted with a mental disorder can be tied to being brain-damaged.
 

ooo5

Member
I like Shinnosuke. He's pretty straight-laced but always has a good wisecrack or two when the situation calls for it, especially as Drive, which I can always appreciate in a Superhero. Especially since it's not really prevalent in most Riders. Sure he needs a bit more effort to get going, though understandable considering what he's gone through, but when he does get "in top gear" he does so with gusto and brainpower that always solves the case.

And considering the quirky cast that surrounds him, minus Kiriko for the most part, it's a nice counterpoint to have him be the sane man to most of what goes on around him. And I can always respect someone who believes in justice, will go through thick and thin to see it done, and has a catchphrase :thumbs:.

So yeah, I quite like Shinnosuke. Then again, there's not a Main Rider that I don't :).
 

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