Which Rider Series Would Work Bestn in Amreican Comic Books?

[Igadevil]

Depends on if it's a limited series or an ongoing.

The finite nature of Tokusatsu shows in general (and Rider shows in particular) is a big part of why I like them. We get a clear beginning, a middle, and an end, and then it's onto the next story. You can bring characters back, but there always has to be a new story pushing ahead somewhere too. Basically every Japanese Kamen Rider comic, regardless of quality, understands this. Despite a rebranding (which basically means zilch) Spirits is still going strong. But it will end eventually; it has to. It's the nature of the story Muraeda, and posthumously, Ishinomori, are telling.

The American/western convention of comics sometimes running for decades on end just doesn't really work with the format, IMHO. I don't want to see Rider 1 and 2 fight Shocker forever with 7 universe-destroying events and a retcon where Taki was a Rider the whole time and we just all forgot because we're dumb and eventually everything gets wiped out after Hongo makes a deal with Satan and gains his THE FIRST costume. I want to see them do it for 98 episodes, beat the big boss and then make way for V3. Rinse, wash, repeat.

For a series with a set lifespan, I could see any of them translating easily. The themes in Kamen Rider are pretty universal and I don't think you need to change a thing about any of them. The only ones I could really see running longer than what we got on TV though are Hibiki and, ironically enough, two that are running longer than what we got on TV: Den-O and W.

Hibiki has the fact that the show is very much just "a day in life of" spread out over a year (plus another at the end.) When the show begins the battle between Oni and Makamou has been raging for centuries, and by the time the show ends it's basically still going. That's actually my biggest problem with the series, though if you want a comic that'll run a long time, there you go. Hibiki basically is a legacy hero, the movie showed us that much.

Den-O, at this point, can pretty much be anything they want it to be. So I could see it working as being a lot of different things under different writers.

And as for W, the nature of the story allows it to keep going even without the old villains. Just come up with some new ones, put the gang on the case, and we're off.

 

[MattComix]

Depends on if it's a limited series or an ongoing.

The finite nature of Tokusatsu shows in general (and Rider shows in particular) is a big part of why I like them. We get a clear beginning, a middle, and an end, and then it's onto the next story. You can bring characters back, but there always has to be a new story pushing ahead somewhere too. Basically every Japanese Kamen Rider comic, regardless of quality, understands this. Despite a rebranding (which basically means zilch) Spirits is still going strong. But it will end eventually; it has to. It's the nature of the story Muraeda, and posthumously, Ishinomori, are telling.

The American/western convention of comics sometimes running for decades on end just doesn't really work with the format, IMHO. I don't want to see Rider 1 and 2 fight Shocker forever with 7 universe-destroying events and a retcon where Taki was a Rider the whole time and we just all forgot because we're dumb and eventually everything gets wiped out after Hongo makes a deal with Satan and gains his THE FIRST costume. I want to see them do it for 98 episodes, beat the big boss and then make way for V3. Rinse, wash, repeat.

For a series with a set lifespan, I could see any of them translating easily. The themes in Kamen Rider are pretty universal and I don't think you need to change a thing about any of them. The only ones I could really see running longer than what we got on TV though are Hibiki and, ironically enough, two that are running longer than what we got on TV: Den-O and W.

Hibiki has the fact that the show is very much just "a day in life of" spread out over a year (plus another at the end.) When the show begins the battle between Oni and Makamou has been raging for centuries, and by the time the show ends it's basically still going. That's actually my biggest problem with the series, though if you want a comic that'll run a long time, there you go. Hibiki basically is a legacy hero, the movie showed us that much.

Den-O, at this point, can pretty much be anything they want it to be. So I could see it working as being a lot of different things under different writers.

And as for W, the nature of the story allows it to keep going even without the old villains. Just come up with some new ones, put the gang on the case, and we're off.

I'm pretty much in agreement with everything you've said in your post.

For me, another factor in this is the degree to which I simply wouldn't trust most modern american comicbook writers (and even moreso editorial staff) with any of these characters because the industry has been stuck in hyper grimdark overdrive for what seems like an eternity. Which would almost inevitably lead to something like a rape storyline involving Ruriko before they turn her into a super-villain and then Tachibana is gored to death on-camera.

..but he'll be back. Oh, and of course Hongo would be obligated to address post 9/11 world politics after having lost his regular superpowers but gained the Den-O powers because we would still be working with the same continuity. ..Kusaka from Faiz would fit right in with the Ultimates universe though. It's perfect for him. An entire world filled with nothing but assholes.

Tokusatsu heroes in many ways have been a welcome and much needed alternative for me to what modern american comicbooks have become and I really would not want to see the same **** happen to those heroes that happened to my favorite American heroes. I still have a wellspring of love for those characters but I can't bring myself to buy their comics and haven't been able to for a long time.

 

[cybervash]

Ichigo

 

[Papercut]

I'm pretty much in agreement with everything you've said in your post.

For me, another factor in this is the degree to which I simply wouldn't trust most modern american comicbook writers (and even moreso editorial staff) with any of these characters because the industry has been stuck in hyper grimdark overdrive for what seems like an eternity. Which would almost inevitably lead to something like a rape storyline involving Ruriko before they turn her into a super-villain and then Tachibana is gored to death on-camera.

..but he'll be back. Oh, and of course Hongo would be obligated to address post 9/11 world politics after having lost his regular superpowers but gained the Den-O powers because we would still be working with the same continuity. ..Kusaka from Faiz would fit right in with the Ultimates universe though. It's perfect for him. An entire world filled with nothing but assholes.

Tokusatsu heroes in many ways have been a welcome and much needed alternative for me to what modern american comicbooks have become and I really would not want to see the same **** happen to those heroes that happened to my favorite American heroes. I still have a wellspring of love for those characters but I can't bring myself to buy their comics and haven't been able to for a long time.

But not all comics characters are placed within an infinite story and series of retcon events, even with Marvel and DC.

If you look to the Green Lantern Corps and even The Flash and now even Batman and Captain America the mantle has been passed on and stayed passed on.

Although the original character may return from time to time they've very much moved onto finite story arcs.

 

[Seigi]

But not all comics characters are placed within an infinite story and series of retcon events, even with Marvel and DC.

If you look to the Green Lantern Corps and even The Flash and now even Batman and Captain America the mantle has been passed on and stayed passed on.

Although the original character may return from time to time they've very much moved onto finite story arcs.

Yes, but how many years did it take for that to happen? And it's not like it's guaranteed that it will stay like that forever, it's not the first time we have a new Batman.

Finite story arcs.... within an infinite series, which is pretty much the problem.

I think Igadevil's posts pretty much sums it up. And I agree with MattComix, superheroes haven't really been heroes these days. It might be said that a flawed character makes for more interesting and realistic storytelling, but they're not heroes anymore if you remove all the stuff that make them heroes. Which is what I imagine what Shotaro Ishinomori envisioned in Kamen Rider as being the flawless heroic force of good. Although, heisei series like W and OOO has shown that you can have flawed characters which have that old fashioned brand of justice. Which is why, as long as american comic books keep doing their dark gritty approach, I wouldn't want to see them do Kamen Rider.

 

[The Masked Mask]

The American/western convention of comics sometimes running for decades on end just doesn't really work with the format, IMHO. I don't want to see Rider 1 and 2 fight Shocker forever with 7 universe-destroying events and a retcon where Taki was a Rider the whole time and we just all forgot because we're dumb and eventually everything gets wiped out after Hongo makes a deal with Satan and gains his THE FIRST costume. I want to see them do it for 98 episodes, beat the big boss and then make way for V3. Rinse, wash, repeat.

The big DC and Marvel superheroes all have their eternally continuing stories, but there are a lot of finite comic stories out there, especially if you look to Vertigo and smaller publishers. I think you could get several years out of one Kamen Rider without hugely expanding the story if only because there would just be that one issue a month, but once it's finished, it can be finished, and a new Kamen Rider comic could be produced.

As for what Kamen Riders would work if you took one and dumped them into an existing comic book universe, that's a bit trickier. I agree that DC is probably a better fit overall, although I could see the Hoppers being a lot of fun in the Marvel universe. Someone like Diend or Gills, who still has a lot of story to explore and doesn't feel quite as tied to their specific series would probably be best. I think IXA (Nago) would be a good fit character wise, even if him being randomly placed in a new universe would be much weirder.

I'd love to see some miniseries about various riders and rider characters and what they've been up to since we've last seen them. Something maybe 4-8 issues long. I've had an idea in the back of my head for a series that follows Godai as he adventures around the world and deals the emotional aftereffect of a lot of what happened in Kuuga. I'd also love to see something like Elseworlds stories for Kamen Rider, although I suppose they've done something similar with some of the movies.

I just think comics are a wonderful storytelling format, and I wish Kamen Rider could be a part of it.

 

[Medivh]

Yes, but how many years did it take for that to happen? And it's not like it's guaranteed that it will stay like that forever, it's not the first time we have a new Batman.

Finite story arcs.... within an infinite series, which is pretty much the problem.

I think Igadevil's posts pretty much sums it up. And I agree with MattComix, superheroes haven't really been heroes these days. It might be said that a flawed character makes for more interesting and realistic storytelling, but they're not heroes anymore if you remove all the stuff that make them heroes. Which is what I imagine what Shotaro Ishinomori envisioned in Kamen Rider as being the flawless heroic force of good. Although, heisei series like W and OOO has shown that you can have flawed characters which have that old fashioned brand of justice. Which is why, as long as american comic books keep doing their dark gritty approach, I wouldn't want to see them do Kamen Rider.

Agreed to an extent as well. The fascination the industry seems to have with grimdark is a problem and it would be one if Riders were to be dropped into their worlds. The constant barrage of emo and Grimdark was what brought me back to Toku, and it definitely seems like I'm not alone, which is nice to know.

But all that said, I think there is hope for the industry. DC seems to be turning back the clock, and while we've got some heroes with flaws, stuff like Barry Allen returning and not suddenly having a huge change in character to 'be more modern' is good. I get the feeling the 90's are finally coming to a close, at least at DC, and we'll be coming to a happy medium where we can have characters regular folks can relate to (although I still argue that making a character horrible flawed and whatnot is the WORST way to go about making them relate-able, but that's another topic for another day) but they also dispense out proper Justice.

Kamen Riders, ultimately, I think could fit. You'd have to be careful how you treat it, but it could work. Especially I think if we give it a few years for the rest of the industry to catch on that we're all tired of Grimdark and everyone settles into that happy medium, I think it would prosper.

Now, odds are I'm wrong, and the industry and the world at large will never give up it's love affair with Grimdark, but one can always hope.

 

[Sage Shinigami]

This thread is:

- Why places like Scans_Daily shouldn't exist

- Why reading wikipedia or talking to friends doesn't actually mean you know jack-squat about what happens in a story.

- Why comics are kinda screwed, 'cause nothing bad can ever happen ever.

And that has nothing to do with my answer to this question, but I can't get that answer out because I'm irritated at half the responses to this thread.

 

[Igadevil]

And that has nothing to do with my answer to this question, but I can't get that answer out because I'm irritated at half the responses to this thread.

Well I'm interested to hear it now since I want to know if I'm in the half that's apparently got it all wrong.

 

[Medivh]

This thread is:

- Why places like Scans_Daily shouldn't exist

- Why reading wikipedia or talking to friends doesn't actually mean you know jack-squat about what happens in a story.

- Why comics are kinda screwed, 'cause nothing bad can ever happen ever.

And that has nothing to do with my answer to this question, but I can't get that answer out because I'm irritated at half the responses to this thread.

I have to admit I'm intrigued too. Especially considering I have no clue what Scans_Daily is, and in my circle of friends I'M the one who has to explain all the comic-related stuff to them, and I keep reminding them I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination.

So um...yeah...any chance you can elaborate? I think we're all welcoming of different opinions for the most part.