What is Tokusatsu: A Fact Based Definition

KingRanger

Banned
I'm just gonna put these two comments together and let everyone draw their own conclusions.

I know my opinions are not fact. You just get butt hurt when I have an opinion that isn't in agreement with yours. Hell you get butt hurt when ever anyone has a differing opinion than yours. But then hey, you are probably the future of this fandom.

I also know I can be a complete asshole. I don't try to cover that up. MG does. He tries to come off as some kind of deep thinker, but his last post here just proves the opposite. I mean I know you want to bash me any chance you get lazer, but you are going to have to try a lot harder.
 

LaZerwolfX

Henshin a Go-Go!!
I know my opinions are not fact. You just get butt hurt when I have an opinion that isn't in agreement with yours. Hell you get butt hurt when ever anyone has a differing opinion than yours. But then hey, you are probably the future of this fandom.

I also know I can be a complete asshole. I don't try to cover that up. MG does. He tries to come off as some kind of deep thinker, but his last post here just proves the opposite. I mean I know you want to bash me any chance you get lazer, but you are going to have to try a lot harder.

Good conclusion.
 

Twisted_Edge

A true Jack of ALL trades!
You can spin it how you want to make him look like a nice guy, but his last post was nothing more than full on douche mode.

Re-read the post. Kinda see your point there...

Also, with your last post, seeing it even better. Thanks for clearing that up. Now I got a handle how to respond a bit better to you post and how to read them :)

I mean this in a positive way, just to point that out.
 

Twisted_Edge

A true Jack of ALL trades!
King Ranger is right with his statement

Going back trough the tread, I agree. MG didn't even GET what I posted, AND did twist it in his own way to suit his own opinion. I did in NO WAY intend to support his theory, becaus I agree with Lynxara the it's stupid to call other show not from Japan "Tokusatsu".

I was talking about association, which is comletely personal. I also agree with the opponents to his statement that anything using special affact CAN be called Tokusatsu. You'd just look like a weeaboo doing it.

I use it to describe Japanese shows because of assosiation, in no way would I use it as an exclusive word.
 
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MechaGolem

Member
Edit: I had a longer post here originally, but you just aren't worth it. That you say people that disagree with you are not contributing.. That is just a douchy way out.

KingRanger, I seriously doubt you have a long post in you. Actually I know you don't.

Go back to Page 1 of this thread. You posted three reasons why you disagreed with what I had written at the beginning of this thread. They were:

1. The Japanese would disagree.

2. That is just rather stupid. Telling people that the way they use a word is abuse. I mean you lable this thread as "fact based" but there are really no facts being used. You have just gone on about your own personal opinion. I mean that is fine and all, but where do you come off telling people they are abusing a word?

3. It's good you maintain your opinion, but many other people can and will disagree.

I in turn refuted all three of your points and in responses rather then offering up any kind of counterargument you simply said:

You let us know when you state any facts. Until then I am out of this thread. It's just a repeat of the other. People giving an opinion. Others giving counter opinions. Then some one saying what they think is fact etc.

And yet despite your own claim that you were "out of this thread" you have continued to periodically pop your head in simply to squawk "That your opinion" at me and others and occasionally lob insults.

None of which can be called contributing to the conversation. It could perhaps accurately be described as trolling however.

In which case it would probably be advisable that I stop addressing you altogether seeing how trolls feed off that kind of stuff.

MG didn't even GET what I posted, AND did twist it in his own way to suit his own opinion. I did in NO WAY intend to support his theory, because I agree with Lynxara that it's stupid to call other shows not from Japan "Tokusatsu".

I was talking about association, which is completely personal. I also agree with the opponents to his statement that anything using special effect CAN be called Tokusatsu. You'd just look like a weeaboo doing it.

I use it to describe Japanese shows because of association, in no way would I use it as an exclusive word.

Twisted_Edge if you feel that I misunderstood your post or misconstrued your words then I'm more then willing to hear you out about it. It certainly wasn't intentional.

You state that you agree with Lynxara's argument that while one CAN use "Tokusatsu" to describe non-Japanese shows one should not. I also agree with her on that point.

You also state however that you would not use it exclusively in this way and that this is based on a personal "association." This point I would ask you to elaborate on as I am unclear as to what you mean here. But I don't think our thoughts on this issue are as in conflict as some might want you to think.
 

KingRanger

Banned
At this point it really is just a very small, though vocal, minority of detractors that are even still contradicting (they aren't really arguing since that would mean they would have to be actually contributing something) with the points made in this thread. I'm not sure why they are doing this either since their repetitive insistence that all of this is nothing more then a single person's opinion, when clearly that isn't the case, is just making them look rather foolish and stubborn.


You have no right to call anyone else a troll when this is what you come up with for people that don't agree with your opinion. :redface2:
 

Twisted_Edge

A true Jack of ALL trades!
To my opinion, it was this bit.

I also think you're right in your assessment that the majority of users here on HJU would agree with the argument that tokusatsu should be used exclusively for "special effect shows from Japan." There is a reason why discussion of non-Japanese films and shows are placed elsewhere here and why even a show like Power Rangers, a localization of a Japanese tokusatsu production, exist in a separate section.

In fact it's not just the folks that hang out on HJU either. As has been well publicized at this point the NY Times recently ran a front page article on tokusatsu and the author of that article, Martin Fackler, was pretty cut and dry about what tokusatsu was; i.e. Japanese SFX productions.

What I get from this, is that you argue that power rangers is put into a different section because it's not Tokusatsu. Sorry, but I heavily disagree. It's put in a different section because there's a forum for Japanese shows, English shows and "other" shows (Like chinese and Indonesian). In the same thread power rangers is discussed, people also talk about doctor who, for instance.

The point I was making is that everyone has a different association to this word. This is completely dependant on how that person came into contact with the word "Tokusatsu". It's context, nothing more. I do not think one should exclusively use "Tokusatsu" for Japanese produced shows. Armour Hero fits the bill as well, so does EreXion. Both are not from Japan (China and South Korea, to be precise), both are made with the same methods modern toku shows are made with. It refers to a way of filming, not a genre.

We already have terms for that. "Henshin Heroes" for Kamen rider and some extent Metal Heroes. And Sentai is it's own genre. There's even an anime sentai show coming. It follows the "rules" set by the genre.

I personally think that the tone of voice of your posts may be the problem. It's very eloquent English. They may get a "high and mighty" vibe from it. You may want to.. well, for the lack of a better frase, "dumb it down". 'Cause I don't think people like having to use a dictionary to read some of your posts... :redface2:

Nothing personal, just an observation.
 

kuroihikari

Member
It's not really the tone. It's more that he's usually very polite but occasionally descends into bouts of aggression that should be easily avoided by someone who has this much command over words.

Anyway, looking back through the thread, I'd have to agree that KingRanger last point is actually correct. There really was no facts (I mean, aside from referencing specific films or somesuch), just the opinion of others that was used as reference to create the definition.

Although I'd probably be hard-pressed to call something like Star Trek as tokusatsu, there are also lots of other examples given that I think are quite indistinguishable, aesthetics-wise to Japanese toku. If I could call it something else, I probably would, but tokusatsu is already an available word to use for it and people understand that it's what I refer to, so why not?

Remember, a definition is not made through facts, it's made through convention. Everyone can make up a definition for a word that can be as far from logical as can be, but as long as they all agree, it will always be correct.
 

Glamador

Member
KingRanger, I seriously doubt you have a long post in you. Actually I know you don't.

Go back to Page 1 of this thread. You posted three reasons why you disagreed with what I had written at the beginning of this thread. They were:

I in turn refuted all three of your points and in responses rather then offering up any kind of counterargument you simply said:

And yet despite your own claim that you were "out of this thread" you have continued to periodically pop your head in simply to squawk "That your opinion" at me and others and occasionally lob insults.

Dude, that's just KingRangers style. He really *is* a troll. And, in truest 3-yr-old fashion, he slings that insult around at others like some kind of shield. Just ignore him. It's easier that way. Nothing he's ever said has had any hint of reasonable discussion in it.
 

Twisted_Edge

A true Jack of ALL trades!
KingRanger a troll? Hmmm, I dunno about that. He can be agetating sometimes, but I can see where he's coming from. I learned how to read his post now. Put things in another perspective. He's often right about things, actually. No defending him per sé, just sharing an observation.
 
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KingRanger

Banned
KingRanger a troll? Hmmm, I dunno about that. He can be agetating sometimes, but I can see where he's coming from. I learned how to read his post now. Put things in another perspective. He's often right about things, actually. No defending him per sé, just sharing an observation.

Here is the thing edge. People like Glamdor and cirno think having a strong opinion is a wonderful thing UNLESS... UNLESS.. it comes from some one not in their little circles of friends. I have come to expect this in this fandom. You can not avoid it.
 

Twisted_Edge

A true Jack of ALL trades!
I've noticed that with several posters. But disagreeing is a god given right. Like I said. I see your point.

A strong opinion should be based on something. I've reajusted my opinion often after I've been proven wrong.

Never to old to learn and all that.
 

Glamador

Member
Here is the thing edge. People like Glamdor and cirno think having a strong opinion is a wonderful thing UNLESS... UNLESS.. it comes from some one not in their little circles of friends. I have come to expect this in this fandom. You can not avoid it.

I don't actually have any friends here.
 
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