What is Tokusatsu: A Fact Based Definition

[MechaGolem]

Sorry there, but a lot of toku is pure cheese. Yeah it's cheesy fun, but if you deny the cheese factor, then you are just as bad as the people that try and say how Super sentai is deep and dark because they saw some swear words used in a fansub.

We're not talking about thematic content, but SFX techniques. I'll happily admit that the plot lines and situations of pretty much all Tokusatsu is "cheesy" though I would prefer the term "absurd" and if not that then I'll settle for "campy."

But the SFX are not "cheesy", they're stylized.

 

[Painted_Outlaw]

Toku wasn't invented in Japan and the Japanese can't claim it as their own.

Um, not sure what you're trying to say here. Do you mean the style of media wasn't invented there or the word wasn't?

 

[MechaGolem]

If you don't think the SFX to some old and new toku is cheesy, then IMO you are deluding yourself. A giant mecha gorrila throwing bananas as a weapon is very cheesy.

You seem to think cheesy is a bad thing. It's not.

A giant robot gorilla with banana shaped missles (I assume we're talking about Go-Busters here) is a silly idea regardless of the SFX. If it was rendered with flawless photorealistic Hollywood CGI it wold be no more or less silly then if it was done via some very impressive suitmation courtesy of Tokusatsu director Hiroshi Butsuda.

But I suppose it would help if we defined terms here. When someone says something is "cheesy" I take it to mean "fake looking or tacky as a result of being cheap," as in "The SFX could have been better but they went with these tacky ones because they were cheaper, as a result the film is rather cheesy."

But because the majority of Tokusatsu movies and shows tend to be incredibly expensive productions (by Japanese standards) I don't think you can fairly throw the allegation of "cheesiness" at them.

You can certainly say that some of the SFX in the older shows and films are bad however. Toei's ÔGON BATTO from 1966 has some incredibly bad SFX work in it when compared to other Tokusatsu productions from the same year including Toho's THE WAR OF THE GARGANTUAS & GODZILLA VS. THE SEA MONSTER, Daiei's GAMERA VS. BARUGON & DAIMAJIN TRILOGY, Tsuburaya's ULTRA Q & ULTRAMAN and even Toei's other films including THE MAGIC SERPENT & WATARI THE BOY NINJA. I don't know what happened with ÔGON BATTO but when compared to any of these other films or shows, let alone all of them, it comes out looking just awful in the SFX department (not to say the writing or acting is any good either).

So yeah I consider "cheesy" to be a derogatory term when talking about film and TV. "Campy", on the other hand, is different. If we follow Susan Sontag's cue to say something is "campy" is just to say that you find silly but that the writers and directors are playing it straight. Sontag gives a number of examples including some of Ishiro Honda's Tokusatsu films (RODAN & THE MYSTERIANS to be exact). And yeah I don't think "campiness" is a bad thing at all.

 

[Aoi Kurenai]

I do have to agree with MechaGolem there. When people say something looks ridiculous, it's often coming from the perspective of someone who looks to American productions and sees the effects that costs millions to produce and thinks of that as the pinnacle. Because Westerners are so used to top level CGI, they see things like the usage of miniatures to be this low level cheese, which I don't think is true. Story aside, it really is just a branching off point where one country's special effects territory went into a different direction. It's entirely possible to use miniatures and creative camera work to make things look good - and you can punctuate this idea by looking at poorly done miniature work, there's a marked difference in what you would be looking at when comparing the two.

 

[MechaGolem]

Story aside, it really is just a branching off point where one country's special effects territory went into a different direction. It's entirely possible to use miniatures and creative camera work to make things look good - and you can punctuate this idea by looking at poorly done miniature work, there's a marked difference in what you would be looking at when comparing the two.

Exactly! To use a funny but totally apt analogy it's like dog breeds. They're all dogs, but you have different types which were bread in different countries and are unique to that country. You have American breeds like the Husky and Japanese breeds like the Akita. And though they may both be dogs and have a common ancestry we still distinguish them as seperate and unique breeds hailing from different cultures and different parts of the world and which are good at different things. The same is true for American SFX and Japanese Tokusatsu!

Oh, and if you want to see just how good early Japanese suitimation work was just contrast it with what was being done in Hollywood at the same time. Watch GODZILLA (1954) and then the American made THE LAND UNKNOWN (1957) or alternatively UNKNOWN ISLAND (1948) both of which feature some of the most abysmal dinosaur costumes ever made.

 

[Inui Takumi]

Man, what a thread.

There seems to be two main points of discussion here so I’ll go at them one at a time. First, about how the word “tokusatsu†should be used in conversation. From what I can see, there is a distinction between how it is used within the fanbase and how it is used outside of the fanbase. Personally, I don’t think its a crime to use it however you want. I’ve lived in a bilingual house all of my life, so hearing words from different languages being used in the same sentence has never been a big deal for me, as I’m sure is the case for many here. I think that for people who want to make a distinction between when it should and shouldn’t be used, they are not quite used to this type of communication and so it throws them off. I’m all for defining a term, but I don’t think its a big deal to have people describe a certain type of show or movie as Tokusatsu if they see that it makes sense in the context.

Personally, I don’t use the term “tokusatsu†to refer to shows like Doctor Who because its just not what comes to mind when I think of it. But, I don’t think its entirely wrong to use it to describe movies like The Avengers or shows like Power Rangers. Tokusatsu does refer to SFX. I mean, its how the original Ultraman was presented as. Limiting a term to a certain grade of media from a certain country only isolates its use and who can use it, which I feel is the complete opposite of the entertainment media as a whole. It’s about spreading ideas and concepts across regions. Why should the term be controlled to a certain country when other terms of the same value are used everyday here?

Which brings me to the second point: What should be considered “tokusatsu� I’m surprised that for a forum that consists of people from different countries around the world enjoying content from around the world, that the notion of limiting what is seen as “tokusatsu†to just what is made in Japan is even an issue. I know that a majority of the people on this board are from the West, but we have people from all corners of the world enjoying shows and movies from not only Japan, but from China, Indonesia, Korea, USA, UK, etc. The fact that people want to classify a term that brought us all together to just one country makes absolutely no sense to me.

Some say that tokusatsu is a genre, some say its just a technical way of making TV shows/movies, while others say its a cultural philosophy of media. Whatever it is, just because a majority of the content we watch that is deemed “tokusatsu†is coming from Japan doesn’t mean that they are the only ones that can make tokusatsu. Many countries look at these shows and want to create content of their own with that style of production in mind. From professional production studios to indie film projects. Why does that make it any less worthy of the term? It’s like saying that Enter the Dragon is not a martial arts film because Warner Bros. was involved in the production. Or that you did not really study Kung Fu or Tae Kwon Do or Muay Thai because you learned it in the States or another country outside of the country of origin.

This is a very limiting mindset that I think does nothing to improve the fandom. It just alienates people who want to either talk about the shows/movies that they love or make content in a similar style. Its restricting in many ways and sort of kills the discussion altogether.

Tokusatsu may not have a concrete definition to some, but we know what its referring to. When talking to people who are not familiar with the term or genre, of course it would seem odd and we’d have to elaborate. But that’s the same with someone who still isn’t familiar with anime or manga. Why should this be any different? Why does this have to be some sort of, for a lack of a better word, “holy†term that only certain people can use? Japanese people use English words to mean different things, whether to broaden or narrow its meaning. Why can’t we do the same with the Japanese language. Multilingual communication isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Lynxara]

I think that for people who want to make a distinction between when it should and shouldn’t be used, they are not quite used to this type of communication and so it throws them off.

That's a bit patronizing, don't you think? You're literally saying your opponents in this debate must be less cultured than you are, and that is the only reason why they disagree. I don't think you really mean that, given that the rest of your post is about the importance of being open-minded.

In writing, and to an extent in English communication in general, I subscribe to George Orwell's admonition that gratuitous use of foreign terms in English where perfectly good English terms exist already is pretentious, obnoxious, and needlessly obfuscates meaning. That is, don't use a foreign word for something where an English word will do.

Tokusatsu has the problem of its broad definition meaning exactly "special effects," which is going to be more familiar a term to 99% of the people you will ever communicate with in English. Unless you want to emphasize that you're speaking mainly about Japanese special effects stuff, then why bother to import the term into English at all? We've already got a way to say the same thing that's easier to pronounce and abbreviate.

(Man, how many times am I gonna link that thing on these forums?)

Limiting a term to a certain grade of media from a certain country only isolates its use and who can use it, which I feel is the complete opposite of the entertainment media as a whole.

The point of most entertainment media is to turn a profit from direct sales and licensing. If the point was "spreading ideas and concepts across regions" there'd be no such thing as region locking. Yet for basically every major modern form of entertainment, the people who own it carefully region lock all releases in an attempt to control who can and can't see it. As fans of primarily Japanese media, we break that rule all the time when we download fansubs and other bootleg releases. But chances are the people who own it would stop us, if they understood how to do so efficiently, and we forget that too easily.

The fact that people want to classify a term that brought us all together to just one country makes absolutely no sense to me.

Earlier I made the argument that there was no logical reason to argue for a broad definition of tokusatsu, that mainly a broader definition made non-Japanese fans feel better about themselves. And honestly, you've just proven that point. How does where we're from matter at all? We're all watching the same stuff. And I mean, we're posting in a forum where basically every non-Japanese show gets ignored, unless it involves Saban (i.e., is American, like most of our userbase).

We can talk about how great it is that every nation makes tokusatsu all we want, but very few people who show up here actually wans to talk very much about Korean, Chinese, Filipino, and other shows. I'm sure Bima Satria Garuda will get ignored, too, even though Ishimori Pro is working on it. It's rather reminiscent of how everyone talked about how Americans could make manga, too, back during the manga bubble? And then TokyoPop's entire OEL manga line bombed so hard it brought down the publisher. The exact same people who argued anyone could make manga made it clear in their spending that, regardless, they only wanted to buy Japanese manga.

And I note we're having this conversation in a part of the site where, generally, threads about non-Asian media are reported, so they can be moved to the Power Chamber. So if everyone really feels that all nations' special effects show are equally tokusatsu, why are the site's thousand-odd users okay with this? In fact, okay with it to the point of helping enforce the division between what is, largely, Japanese media and everybody else's media? It smacks of the same thought process that lead to OEL manga's defenders not actually buying the product.

It’s like saying that Enter the Dragon is not a martial arts film because Warner Bros. was involved in the production.

It's more like saying that (in English) Enter the Dragon is a good martial arts film, but isn't a wuxia film because it's just too American. And this is something people actually do, despite there being broad acceptance that Enter the Dragon is definitely a Hong Kong martial arts film. That's how genre definitions work. Some works fit and some don't, and the classification is meant to tell you something useful about what the work is like. It doesn't diminish Enter the Dragon's greatness at all to say it's not a wuxia film.

Why does this have to be some sort of, for a lack of a better word, “holy†term that only certain people can use?

Whether you use a limited or broad definition, I think it needs to be emphasized that to be tokusatsu is not necessarily to be good. There is no inherently desirable positive quality to being tokusatsu. In fact, even if you used the most limited possible definition of tokusatsu, you must admit that a lot of shitty, dumb tokusatsu exists.

I think everyone in the thread could probably agree that toksuatsu is simply a type of production, regardless of their other stances. So I don't think there's anything necessarily good or bad about saying something is or isn't covered by the term when it's used in English. It's a grouping of similar objects, not a cool kids' club that some people aren't good enough to join.

 

[Inui Takumi]

That's a bit patronizing, don't you think? You're literally saying your opponents in this debate must be less cultured than you are, and that is the only reason why they disagree. I don't think you really mean that, given that the rest of your post is about the importance of being open-minded.

You're right. That's not how I meant for it to come across. I guess I just worded it wrong. What I was meaning to say was that we're in a society where we talk in a multilingual fashion even if we don't always notice it. So one more term doesn't really hurt the conversation if it fits.

In writing, and to an extent in English communication in general, I subscribe to George Orwell's admonition that gratuitous use of foreign terms in English where perfectly good English terms exist already is pretentious, obnoxious, and needlessly obfuscates meaning. That is, don't use a foreign word for something where an English word will do.

Tokusatsu has the problem of its broad definition meaning exactly "special effects," which is going to be more familiar a term to 99% of the people you will ever communicate with in English. Unless you want to emphasize that you're speaking mainly about Japanese special effects stuff, then why bother to import the term into English at all? We've already got a way to say the same thing that's easier to pronounce and abbreviate.

I guess you could say its more about convenience. Chances are that most fans of tokusatsu will use the term in forums like these or with friends who are familiar of the genre more often than with people who have no clue what it is. In those cases, its easier to say "tokusatsu" if the person knows what you're referring to than saying "special effects TV show". I guess you could call it sci-fi but for us who are familiar with it, its much easier to refer it as tokusatsu. And I don't really see a problem with using it in that way.

The point of most entertainment media is to turn a profit from direct sales and licensing. If the point was "spreading ideas and concepts across regions" there'd be no such thing as region locking. Yet for basically every major modern form of entertainment, the people who own it carefully region lock all releases in an attempt to control who can and can't see it. As fans of primarily Japanese media, we break that rule all the time when we download fansubs and other bootleg releases. But chances are the people who own it would stop us, if they understood how to do so efficiently, and we forget that too easily.

I think you kind of missed the point I was trying to make here. Everything is about turning a profit. That's a given. But within that framework, there are people who genuinely produce content because they love what they do and they would like to share it. We don't really need to further isolate it with specific terms when companies do a good enough job of that already.

Earlier I made the argument that there was no logical reason to argue for a broad definition of tokusatsu, that mainly a broader definition made non-Japanese fans feel better about themselves. And honestly, you've just proven that point. How does where we're from matter at all? We're all watching the same stuff. And I mean, we're posting in a forum where basically every non-Japanese show gets ignored, unless it involves Saban (i.e., is American, like most of our userbase).

We can talk about how great it is that every nation makes tokusatsu all we want, but very few people who show up here actually wans to talk very much about Korean, Chinese, Filipino, and other shows. I'm sure Bima Satria Garuda will get ignored, too, even though Ishimori Pro is working on it. It's rather reminiscent of how everyone talked about how Americans could make manga, too, back during the manga bubble? And then TokyoPop's entire OEL manga line bombed so hard it brought down the publisher. The exact same people who argued anyone could make manga made it clear in their spending that, regardless, they only wanted to buy Japanese manga.

Why is it a negative thing for fans to feel good or want to feel good about the things they watch? Fans enjoy many different aspects of the genre. Broadening the term doesn't harm that, from what I can tell.

And I understand the issue of non-Japanese shows being ignored for the most part. But a lot of it does have to do with access to the show. There are a lot of shows out there from other countries where its hard to get good RAWs, much less find translations of it. People know about Armor Hero because it was subbed. And shows like EreXion could have been big in the fandom if the fansub was continued. People said the same thing about older shows, that fans ignored it for the most part. But now that we have a lot of older shows being subbed, there is a lot more discussion around them. Not putting the blame on fansub groups at all. But access is definitely a part of the reason shows like that don't get discussed as often.

It's more like saying that (in English) Enter the Dragon is a good martial arts film, but isn't a wuxia film because it's just too American. And this is something people actually do, despite there being broad acceptance that Enter the Dragon is definitely a Hong Kong martial arts film. That's how genre definitions work. Some works fit and some don't, and the classification is meant to tell you something useful about what the work is like. It doesn't diminish Enter the Dragon's greatness at all to say it's not a wuxia film.

The way that the issue was being discussed here, it seemed like if a show was not made in Japan by Japanese production companies, than it was just an imitation of the style and thus it was not a part of the genre. That's the part that I have an issue with. Styles or techniques are meant to be implemented and adapted. Whether its a bad piece of work or not, it can still be classified as tokusatsu if that's what the people behind it were going for. Limiting it to productions in Japan seems odd to me.

Whether you use a limited or broad definition, I think it needs to be emphasized that to be tokusatsu is not necessarily to be good. There is no inherently desirable positive quality to being tokusatsu. In fact, even if you used the most limited possible definition of tokusatsu, you must admit that a lot of shitty, dumb tokusatsu exists.

Of course. There are shitty productions in any genre, tokusatsu is not exempt from that. But, if the people behind the scenes were aiming for that style of film, I don't see the problem with including it in that classification.

I think everyone in the thread could probably agree that toksuatsu is simply a type of production, regardless of their other stances. So I don't think there's anything necessarily good or bad about saying something is or isn't covered by the term when it's used in English. It's a grouping of similar objects, not a cool kids' club that some people aren't good enough to join.

That seemed to be the position that was being posed in this thread initially. That only a certain group of people can make content that is considered tokusatsu, when in any other genre it is perfectly fine to include a piece of content in the fold if that was the intention, good or bad in quality.

 

[Ivanhobe]

And I note we're having this conversation in a part of the site where, generally, threads about non-Asian media are reported, so they can be moved to the Power Chamber.

I have nothing to add to this conversation. I just wanted to point out how funny that sentence is.

 

[Shynilyte]

It's not just about the country of origin and it's not just about the style and art direction either. It's both of those things, but most importantly it's about the underlining aesthetic philosophy at work behind the entire enterprise. The Japanese have cultivated and continue to employ a certain style SFX because their is a unique artistic ideology at work behind it. What Donald Ritchie refers to as "Representational" and "Presentational" aesthetics. American filmmakers have largely been preoccupied with the "Representational" trying to recreate reality on the silver screen. The Japanese on the other hand are more interested in the "Presentational" is which a stylized idea of a particular version of reality is shown. It's for this reason that Hollywood SFX have continued to change drastically over the decades with regards to the techniques they use because they are always looking for something more "real." But the Japanese have been content with men in monster costumes ever since Harou Nakajima slipped into the very first Godzilla suit because "realism" isn't a prerogative of Japanese art. So a man in a dinosaur suit is just fine because everyone watching the screen understands that is this version of reality this is what a 50-meter-tall radioactive behemoth looks like.

And those philosophical differences like using rubber suits instead of CGI won't hold true forever. Or did you not see Superior Ultraman 8 Brothers, Movie War Core, and so on?

But I suppose it would help if we defined terms here. When someone says something is "cheesy" I take it to mean "fake looking or tacky as a result of being cheap," as in "The SFX could have been better but they went with these tacky ones because they were cheaper, as a result the film is rather cheesy."

But because the majority of Tokusatsu movies and shows tend to be incredibly expensive productions (by Japanese standards) I don't think you can fairly throw the allegation of "cheesiness" at them.

Are you suggesting Japanese shows don't have the issue of being "fake looking or tacky"? I'm in the middle episodes of Dekaranger now, and the miniature sets are terribly plain. They're pretty much just dull buildings packed closely together. I decided to compare those a later episode of Ultraman Nexus, a show which came out not too long after Dekaranger. Nexus had miniature plants, electric towers, lamp posts, fences, lots of little vehicles, and even highway guard railings. All of which combine to form a more convincing city scape than Dekaranger provides. (yeah, Dekaranger had tiny vehicles too, but as far as I've seen, they were really scarce, even in the cities, except during those shots with the Deka Machines driving over them)

You can certainly say that some of the SFX in the older shows and films are bad however.

If we can say "bad", why not "cheesy", then?