Uh... what does Decade 31 have to do with All Riders?

[Dr Kain]

So I watched the Decade portion of the Movie Wars movie (I watched Begins Night a few weeks ago when I watched W) and thought it was still crap. There is still too much information missing between episode 31 and this, and stuff is still random. Narutaki is now a Shocker member? That seemed odd since he was trying to stop Shocker in the series. Plus the whole picture thing to revive Tsukasa made no sense. In fact, everything seemed to easy. So Decade is defeated and everything returns to normal? What the hell? What a cop out. There should have been something that was needed to be defeated in order to either keep the worlds seperated or merge them into one. Plus, they should have had the riders change to their correct identities (and of course, actors). They wouldn't need to show them all, but since they had the original actors for Kiva, Blade, Hibiki, and Agito, they could have easily stated as such. Oh, and then a random elephant shows up out of nowhere. And what is up with the giant Kamen Rider? He was in the All Riders movie too.

Again though, no matter how you look at it, Decade was just a giant train wreck and the only episodes I could see myself ever rewatching are the ones with Black. However, that will be a rare occassion. I think the writer's were just making it up as they went along and only did things just to provide fangasms.

Also, the All Riders moving taking place between episodes 29 and 30 still doesn't make sense because nothing is mentioned about it in episode 30.

 

[NeonZ]

I think that they originally meant for him to be Prof. Shinigami, but since it didn't make sense and didn't have the punch of Tsukasa being the Great Leader, they tried to retcon it with Movie War 2010.

Like I said in my previous post, there's an extra scene in the Director's Cut of All Riders vs Dai-Shocker that shows his Eijiro personality wasn't just acting. He's alone in the studio and reacts with fear for Natsumi when he notices the Dai-Shocker castle rising.

Yet, a few minutes later as Shinigami, he doesn't seem to care at all when Tsukasa throws her in the sewers and just lets Dai-Shocker troops attack her without putting any effort to spare her at least. Even if they hadn't planned that he was possessed by a Gaia Memory specifically, they had planned that he was possessed by something.

But when he first become possessed? What was the point of possessing him?

There's a flashback in Movie Wars 2010 which shows the Sonozaki's leader giving a Gaia Memory to Eijiro.

Did he know what was going on with the merging Worlds or just going with the flow? If the latter, how did he have a studio that could take the heroes through Worlds?

Well, as Shinigami, at least, he was a Dai-Shocker member. It's not very clear if Eijiro himself knew about Dai-Shocker and everything else when he wasn't being controlled. He seemed to recognize the Dai-Shocker castle though, but it's not very clear.

And why, I ask again, is everything treated with a shrug in this show? The cast literally just goes through the motions of the script without any sense of believability! I wonder if they even knew what they were doing half the time.

I've seen that lack of reaction in some anime that focus on the main character visiting weekly strange places (Kino's Journey, Mushishi). I guess they were inspired by that, although attempting to add humor too, while those shows were rather introspective and serious.

Narutaki is now a Shocker member? That seemed odd since he was trying to stop Shocker in the series.

Rewatch the scene where Tsukasa met Narutaki. "Do you hate me so much you've even become a Shocker?!". Narutaki previously believed that Tsukasa still was with Shocker, that's why he despised them (In the scene where Narutaki meets Natsumi in All Riders vs Dai-Shocker, after Tsukasawas kicked out, both still talked like they thought Tsukasa was commanding them). He had been shown working with monsters before too, like back in the Ryuuki, Blade and Hibiki Worlds.

Also, the All Riders moving taking place between episodes 29 and 30 still doesn't make sense because nothing is mentioned about it in episode 30.

Tsukasa drops his comments about not finding his own world in episodes 30 and 31 - and that's after ending 29 talking about finding his own world. That clip near the ending of episode 29 where a Dai-Shocker castle rises in the middle of a city with Narutaki watching also was directly taken from the movie (well, the castle and the city, not Narutaki). Also, it's confirmed by a Japanese publication.

It's not perfect, especially due to Decade always trying to end with a cliffhanger for the next world in the tv show, but it's there.

Plus, they should have had the riders change to their correct identities (and of course, actors). They wouldn't need to show them all, but since they had the original actors for Kiva, Blade, Hibiki, and Agito, they could have easily stated as such.

No one's identities were ever changed though. The AR Riders from Decade and the real ones are separate characters like the tv finale showed, when Kenzaki was walking around with Kendate still around.

The Decade part of Movie Wars 2010 was originally meant to be another All Riders movie, and if they had gone through that we'd probably have seen more of the og Riders like in All Riders vs Dai-Shocker, but that was changed sometime during production, so they focused on the characters from Decade itself. Also, although it's really easy to miss, the Blade that Decade beats in the first part of the movie was voiced by Kenzaki's actor.

The giant elephant is pretty much just there for a giant CG battle scene with W in the W/Decade crossover segment.

And what is up with the giant Kamen Rider? He was in the All Riders movie too.

Kamen Rider J from the movie Kamen Rider J.

 

[Black Fang]

Like I said in my previous post, there's an extra scene in the Director's Cut of All Riders vs Dai-Shocker that shows his Eijiro personality wasn't just acting. He's alone in the studio and reacts with fear for Natsumi when he notices the Dai-Shocker castle rising.

Yet, a few minutes later as Shinigami, he doesn't seem to care at all when Tsukasa throws her in the sewers and just lets Dai-Shocker troops attack her without putting any effort to spare her at least. Even if they hadn't planned that he was possessed by a Gaia Memory specifically, they had planned that he was possessed by something.

But why possess him at all?

There's a flashback in Movie Wars 2010 which shows the Sonozaki's leader giving a Gaia Memory to Eijiro.

I thought Ryubee and Eichiri knew each other from somewhere and Ryubee was passing him a Memory as part of some deal. But if Eichiro was oblivious, why take something from a strange guy?

I've seen that lack of reaction in some anime that focus on the main character visiting weekly strange places (Kino's Journey, Mushishi). I guess they were inspired by that, although attempting to add humor too, while those shows were rather introspective and serious.

It's just not believable in any way. None of the characters had any idea what was going on or would happen, but it's treated like an everyday occurrence. And that still doesn't explain how Eichiro just happens to have a photo studio that can transport you to different dimensions and suddenly knowing what to do. Most of the rest of the time he was clueless comic relief.

Rewatch the scene where Tsukasa met Narutaki. "Do you hate me so much you've even become a Shocker?!". Narutaki previously believed that Tsukasa still was with Shocker, that's why he despised them (In the scene where Narutaki meets Natsumi in All Riders vs Dai-Shocker, after Tsukasa was kicked out, both still talked like they thought Tsukasa was commanding them). He had been shown working with monsters before too, like back in the Ryuuki, Blade and Hibiki Worlds.

So Narutaki believed Tsukasa was still in Dai-Shocker, and then becomes a member too to get rid of him? What? Why would he believe he was still a member anyway if he saw the guy defeating the villains of each World? Why would he hate Dai-Shocker? Is he a victim of them?

I honestly don't get how Decade can be defensible in any way when so much of it seems like the writers took a hodgepodge of ideas and threw them together without any coherence, hoping that brainless fanservice (as opposed to fanservice with some logical sense) would be enough to sate the audience.

 

[NeonZ]

But why possess him at all?

I thought Ryubee and Eichiri knew each other from somewhere and Ryubee was passing him a Memory as part of some deal. But if Eichiro was oblivious, why take something from a strange guy?

I can't answer that, the movie doesn't make it clear. It does look like they're friends and know each other, but the only thing we get about Eijiro receiving the Gaia Memory is a brief flashback during the W part of the movie. They say nothing about Ryubee's motivation or plan behind that action.

It's just not believable in any way. None of the characters had any idea what was going on or would happen, but it's treated like an everyday occurrence. And that still doesn't explain how Eichiro just happens to have a photo studio that can transport you to different dimensions and suddenly knowing what to do. Most of the rest of the time he was clueless comic relief.

Well, as Shinigami, at least, he was a Dai-Shocker member. And, like it's eventually revealed, all that traveling Decade did was helping Dai-Shocker too due to building more bridges that allow them to go to more worlds.

So Narutaki believed Tsukasa was still in Dai-Shocker, and then becomes a member too to get rid of him? What?

He becomes a Dai-Shocker member after it's obvious to everyone that Tsukasa was kicked out.

Why would he believe he was still a member anyway if he saw the guy defeating the villains of each World?

Well, we do get a brief Crisis Vs Dai-Shocker segment in the RX World. There's nothing stopping villains from fighting each other. Also, Tsukasa was still helping Dai-Shocker with that world hopping - and when he recovers his memories he does return to them and takes up the Great Leader position again until he's kicked out, so it's not like Narutaki was even completely wrong.

Why would he hate Dai-Shocker? Is he a victim of them?

Because Decade was with them. Like Movie Wars 2010 shows, he has no problem teaming up with Shocker after he learns Tsukasa isn't working with them anymore.

The one he really hates is Tsukasa/Decade, not Dai-Shocker. And, no, we don't know why he hates Decade. In the new Super Hero Taisen movie, and in interviews about it, they teased Narutaki's mystery again but don't really explain anything either.

I honestly don't get how Decade can be defensible in any way when so much of it seems like the writers took a hodgepodge of ideas and threw them together without any coherence, hoping that brainless fanservice (as opposed to fanservice with some logical sense) would be enough to sate the audience.

I agree that the resolution of Decade's story wasn't handled well, especially the material they left for Movie Wars 2010. However, I really enjoyed the episodic world hopping structure, rather than the usual focus on a single antagonist, and the fast paced storytelling of most arcs. There really isn't any other tokusatsu show comparable to it in that aspect. Of course, you can't stand even the general atittude of the character, so I guess you couldn't really enjoy that aspect either.

 

[Wing Saber]

I've always viewed Narutaki as a pathetic villian, and it was not just his bitching & moaning about Decade. To where he made Tsukasa a scapegoat for everything. But was further proven with him joining Shocker. Which is what Tsukasa called him out on. Even 3 years later in Super Hero Taisen, he's still the same whiney *****. But the question mark he left was what he really is. If they given him a background I would have some sympathy for him.

As for why Tsukasa has to destroy the Riders to fix the multiverse. It went back to what Wataru said in the first ep. that creation can't happen without destruction first. It no different than when you want to build a new house, you have to demolish the old one first.

Furthermore, Decade itself was more on fanservice. Not to mention that some people put too much expectations from the very beginning. However it was still both a ratings & sales sucess in Japan. But no matter what, the majority of the fandom will always hate it. Even if it's execution was perfect.

 

[Black Fang]

I can't answer that, the movie doesn't make it clear. It does look like they're friends and know each other, but the only thing we get about Eijiro receiving the Gaia Memory is a brief flashback during the W part of the movie. They say nothing about Ryubee's motivation or plan behind that action.

Yet another brilliant moment in Decade's script.

Well, as Shinigami, at least, he was a Dai-Shocker member. And, like it's eventually revealed, all that traveling Decade did was helping Dai-Shocker too due to building more bridges that allow them to go to more worlds.

What is the use of having a member who half the time doesn't know he's a member? It's not like he ever unwittingly relayed information to them during the World hopping, or at all. And are you saying that DaiShocker purposely left an amnesiac Tsukasa for someone to find so he could connect Worlds for them while thinking he's saving them? But they had already made bridges to the Worlds, and Tsukasa was traveling through them because of it.

The one he really hates is Tsukasa/Decade, not Dai-Shocker. And, no, we don't know why he hates Decade. In the new Super Hero Taisen movie, and in interviews about it, they teased Narutaki's mystery again but don't really explain anything either.

Sigh....

It would be so much simpler if Narutaki was just Colonel Zol all along and monitoring Decade and Co. with Kivara while they traveled Worlds. Decade is the absolute apex of "old" Heisei's attempts to copy Agito's elaborate plot and utterly failing.

I agree that the resolution of Decade's story wasn't handled well, especially the material they left for Movie Wars 2010. However, I really enjoyed the episodic world hopping structure, rather than the usual focus on a single antagonist, and the fast paced storytelling of most arcs. There really isn't any other tokusatsu show comparable to it in that aspect. Of course, you can't stand even the general atittude of the character, so I guess you couldn't really enjoy that aspect either.

I'm not against the World hopping. I just really hate how Toei didn't bother to get cast members from each Heisei show back for each World arc like they did for Hibiki and Den-O. (Though I might still have found a way to put Hiroko Sato in somewhere. Maybe as Ichijio's partner in Kuuga World and a G4 team member in Agito World.) Most of the "reimagined" Worlds were just stupid.

I also hated the mountain of things that didn't make sense, and the lack of any reaction the characters had at the World hopping and wondrous things they encountered that any normal person would have, instead reading through the script without any feeling. I don't know how it worked in the two animes you mentioned, but in this show it was intolerable.

Lastly I hated the completely out-of-nowhere inclusion of Showa Rider stuff. I can accept DaiShocker as a group of alternate/homage Showa villains (something like what the Fourze summer movie is doing with the Kyodain siblings) that the Heisei Riders must team together to defeat. I will even admit it was great to see Tetsuo Kurata back. But I think it's clear that that was one of many last-minute stuff the writers pulled.

The fact that Toei decided to bring back past cast members from 35 years worth of Sentai for Gokaiger doesn't tell you that they probably decided to do what they wouldn't do in Decade? I can't be the only one who didn't have an issue with that aspect.

Furthermore, Decade itself was more on fanservice. Not to mention that some people put too much expectations from the very beginning. However it was still both a ratings & sales sucess in Japan. But no matter what, the majority of the fandom will always hate it. Even if it's execution was perfect.

Your shilling for Toei never ceases to amaze.

 

[NeonZ]

And are you saying that DaiShocker purposely left an amnesiac Tsukasa for someone to find so he could connect Worlds for them while thinking he's saving them?

That was apparently a coincidence. In All Riders vs Dai-Shocker, "Shinigami" thanks Natsumi for finding their leader and his belt after Tsukasa lost his memories. They didn't purposely left him anywhere, Tsukasa somehow suffered an impact while traveling around to conquer the worlds and lost his memories. They were lucky to find him again through Natsumi and Eijiro.

But they had already made bridges to the Worlds, and Tsukasa was traveling through them because of it.

They had some bridges, but wanted more. In the Black RX/Black episodes, Kotaro (Black) states that someone is building bridges for Dai-Shocker, and in the All Riders movie it's outright stated that Tsukasa was building those bridges with his world hopping even while amnesiac.

Most of Decade's world hopping in the tv show was clearly to worlds that Dai-Shocker hadn't reached yet, it's only by the time of RX that they start going to worlds that already had bridges for Dai-Shocker.

I don't know how it worked in the two animes you mentioned, but in this show it was intolerable.

Decade often used the lack of reaction for attempts at humor, while those shows were mostly serious. Although I think that atittude was inspired by them (or by their original inspiration if they were based on something else), the execution is very different.

The fact that Toei decided to bring back past cast members from 35 years worth of Sentai for Gokaiger doesn't tell you that they probably decided to do what they wouldn't do in Decade? I can't be the only one who didn't have an issue with that aspect.

Those are different production teams handling those two series, so those "they" don't really reference the same people...

Lastly I hated the completely out-of-nowhere inclusion of Showa Rider stuff. I can accept DaiShocker as a group of alternate/homage Showa villains (something like what the Fourze summer movie is doing with the Kyodain siblings) that the Heisei Riders must team together to defeat. I will even admit it was great to see Tetsuo Kurata back. But I think it's clear that that was one of many last-minute stuff the writers pulled.

I don't disagree that it wasn't planned since the start, but, really, if they hadn't done that there, it looks like a better time for it wouldn't appear for years. Let's Go Kamen Riders basically only featured Rider 1 and 2 out of the older series, with every other Rider aside from the titular ones getting participations even smaller than in All Riders vs Dai-Shocker, and, of course, we've had nothing else comparable to the Black/Black RX Decade episodes in Rider since then.

But, really, you'd also probably dislike the extra alternate Heisei worlds that would replace them in the tv show (maybe based on movies like how Diend's World was basically Missing Ace World, or just random mashups like the Nega World)... And, what you're saying there is basically what happens anyway half of the time at least. In both the tv finale and in Movie Wars 2010, there's only Decade's Riders vs Dai/Super Shocker, with no Showa Riders around (some appear briefly in the first part of Movie Wars 2010, but aren't around for the battle against Shocker).

 

[Khaiden]

So I watched the Decade portion of the Movie Wars movie (I watched Begins Night a few weeks ago when I watched W) and thought it was still crap. There is still too much information missing between episode 31 and this, and stuff is still random.

It's implied some time passed between episode 31 and this one.

Narutaki is now a Shocker member? That seemed odd since he was trying to stop Shocker in the series.

Narutaki was left without explanation. To this day, even after returning in Superhero Taisen, we still don't know what the hell he is.

Plus the whole picture thing to revive Tsukasa made no sense. In fact, everything seemed to easy. So Decade is defeated and everything returns to normal? What the hell? What a cop out. There should have been something that was needed to be defeated in order to either keep the worlds seperated or merge them into one.

And that something was the Riders, this movie says that Decade had to defeat all the Riders in order to revive them. How to revive them? Defeat Decade. The picture thing is their friends remembering him and proving he DID have a story.

Plus, they should have had the riders change to their correct identities (and of course, actors). They wouldn't need to show them all, but since they had the original actors for Kiva, Blade, Hibiki, and Agito, they could have easily stated as such. Oh, and then a random elephant shows up out of nowhere. And what is up with the giant Kamen Rider? He was in the All Riders movie too.

Indeed, that was a complete waste. They had Tsubaki voice Blade for a few screams and a ''Decade!'' but that's it. Wataru shows up but he's just being a dick and acting out of character.
Well, that random elephant was Super Shocker's, the Neo Lifeform had taken over. I dunno.

The giant Kamen Rider is Kamen Rider J, he's the only one that grows giant. Watch his movie if you can.

Also, the All Riders moving taking place between episodes 29 and 30 still doesn't make sense because nothing is mentioned about it in episode 30.

As I told you, technically there is no placement for it, nobody knows when the hell does it take place, so all we have to do is give a placement with the least plotholes.

 

[NeonZ]

As I told you, technically there is no placement for it, nobody knows when the hell does it take place, so all we have to do is give a placement with the least plotholes.

And, like I said before, there's a specific placement for it according to at least one official source, while the others are just more vague, and don't outright contradict it.

Also, I hadn't mentioned it in a previous post, but the portrait of Tsukasa leaving his sister in the past that Eijiro and Kivaara remember in the beginning of the Vs Dai-Shocker movie is noticed by them for the first time in episode 27 of the tv show.

 

[Galaxian]

That was apparently a coincidence. In All Riders vs Dai-Shocker, "Shinigami" thanks Natsumi for finding their leader and his belt after Tsukasa lost his memories.

There are some indications that, between the time he set out of his world as Dai-Shocker's leader to built bridges and the start of the series, Tsukasa met the original Riders. The fact that Kenzaki and the original Wataru knew Tsukasa, the "original" Ryuki looking at Hikari Studios in the first episode, the high possibility that Natsumi's world is the "original" world, and (most importantly) Decade having Kamen Ride cards in the first episode.

So it is a plausible theory that the original Riders had something to do for Tsukasa's amnesia.