Toqger : one of the worst sentai series ever done?

[Wing Saber]

While ToQgers may not be one of the best, it's far from being the worst. Since right now it picked up in a big way. Though it was no surprise that they are kids in the bodies of adults, the fact that they decided to see it to the end despite risking not being able to return to their true ages shows their resolve. While Gaim's theme was about growing up, the ToQgers are forced to mature.

 

[lazycoconut]

ToQger is the first series in like seven years that I haven't been able to watch as it's airing. My main reasons for this are that I find it too villain-heavy; I generally dislike stories centering on the villains and I could not care less about Gritta and her constant fawning over Schwarz (nor the way the ToQgers, especially Mio, act like she's so precious and they have to protect her). Schwarz himself annoys me intensely and I HATE what he's doing to Akira. Tokacchi started out as my favourite character but now in every single episode he has to pine after Mio with the implication that he needs to "get the girl" to feel validated, and she needs to fall in love with him in order to mature. All of this has turned me off the series so much that I find it nearly unwatchable.

However, most of my complaints with ToQger are personal taste. I would not say that the concept or themes of the show are bad and up to the point where I was watching regularly (up to around ep24) I agree the pacing was improving. It isn't the slowest or laziest show Sentai's ever done.

 

[live jetabare]

yes, at episode 24, I thought as well that the pacing was improving... and then followed 15 episodes of almost complete stalling.

Ironically, the good points of Toqger are almost detrimental to the series, because I end up caring more about the villains than the heroes.

About the Toqger forced to mature : it's true for everyone who's involved in a war like situation, which means all the sentai teams : the heroes's resolve is standard stuff.

For those who disagree with me, which are the series you feel are worse than Toqger? after all, for some, all sentai are awesome, and even if Toqger isn't the best, it might be enjoyable

 

[lazycoconut]

About the Toqger forced to mature : it's true for everyone who's involved in a war like situation, which means all the sentai teams : the heroes's resolve is standard stuff.

Yes, all the ToQgers are forced to mature. The point I was making is that the show implies that Mio's awkwardness about romance is a sign of childishness, and falling in love with a guy is her path to growing up. I hate this message, and I think it's bad for girls. They should not be told they need a man in order to become real adults.

 

[Black Fang]

ToQ is the first Sentai show to make me give up after 5 episodes, which does indeed make it the worst series ever. Even Goseiger got me to stick around for 9 episodes and then watch an episode here or there aftewards.

BTW, ToQBoner is the thing that completely ruined the show for me. I could have forgiven the childish dumbass nature of the Retargers and the awful characters on the trains, but the boner scene told me this show was utter horseshit and it was only going to get worse. It also doesn't help that Kobayashi was doing everything on childish safe mode.

All of this from the same guy who thinks Wizard is a return to Showa-style Rider awesomeness? Sometimes your views on things are just baffling :sly:

For those who disagree with me, which are the series you feel are worse than Toqger? after all, for some, all sentai are awesome, and even if Toqger isn't the best, it might be enjoyable

Go-Onger, Goseiger and Kyoryuger come to mind. I might put Magiranger in there too, from what I saw of it years ago. (Who's the more annoying, Mandora Boy or Ticket and Wagon?)

The point I was making is that the show implies that Mio's awkwardness about romance is a sign of childishness, and falling in love with a guy is her path to growing up. I hate this message, and I think it's bad for girls. They should not be told they need a man in order to become real adults.

I have no idea how you read that as the message.

The fact that she would think she should go after an older man is precisely a sign of her awkwardness. It's not an endorsement of anything, it's admitting her confusion. And she changed her mind in the end, anyway. Seriously.

 

[Jacky392000]

with two disappointing years that were Gobusters and Kyoryuger, I'd say Tokkyuger has proven my views of Kobayashi's horrible writing wrong and has surprised me throughout. people are just judging it by the first few episodes.

 

[lazycoconut]

I have no idea how you read that as the message.

The fact that she would think she should go after an older man is precisely a sign of her awkwardness. It's not an endorsement of anything, it's admitting her confusion. And she changed her mind in the end, anyway. Seriously.

I'm referring to the show's implication that she will eventually fall for Tokacchi, for no reason given so far other than that he wants her.

In terms of execution I would say I found Magiranger to be worse than ToQger. The "family is everything!" message was nothing short of blatant propaganda at some points, some characters existed solely for fanservice (Nai and Mea) or to be someone's girlfriend (Yamazaki, Eriko) and I find MagiShine to be the most loathsome Sixth Ranger in the entire franchise. While I like Go-onger and Goseiger as shows far more than I like ToQger, I would say ToQger is stronger than both of them plot-wise.

 

[live jetabare]

For those who chose Go-onger and Goseiger as worse series than Toqger : honestly, they are strong contenders, and I can understand why Toqger can be seen as better than those : in fact, both series have the same shortcomings about the heroes as Toqger, and at least, Toqger has more interesting villains and it has more consistency in using its train gimmick.

About Magiranger :because of the more interesting world building, I feel that Magi is better than Toqger : but I agree that Magi's heroes, "courage" randomness and annoying characters are its weak points.
Last, about Kyoryuger : while Kyoryuger had plenty of flaws, I think that Sanjo's passion in writing it helped redeem that show somewhat, as well as its diverse cast.

 

[kakeru1986]

I remember that the show had really bad episodes after the first combination of Chô ToQOh, and the arrival of Akira.
The cop episode was one of the worst, but apart from that, it's one of the best Sentai I know.

I totally disagree. Whatever Kobayashi touches is close to perfection (except for Den-o).
THe story telling is good in ToQger.
[HIDE] The very fact that the characters turn out to be kids is foreseen. [/HIDE]
I agree that the revelation was kind of anticlimactic, but the word of the President being worried about them probably means something really bad is going to happend to them.
Also, I would totally see Akira dying at the end of the show.

 

[lazycoconut]

I totally disagree. Whatever Kobayashi touches is close to perfection (except for Den-o).

Unfortunately, Kobayashi has quite a legion of fans who believe exactly this and think she can do absolutely no wrong as a writer. I often wonder if her presence kept the show from getting the same kind of savaging Go-onger and Goseiger got in the English-speaking fandom and/or kept people watching it for longer than they otherwise would have

For those who chose Go-onger and Goseiger as worse series than Toqger : honestly, they are strong contenders, and I can understand why Toqger can be seen as better than those : in fact, both series have the same shortcomings about the heroes as Toqger, and at least, Toqger has more interesting villains and it has more consistency in using its train gimmick.

I don't believe that ToQger's villains are particularly interesting (I understand why others feel they are, but they have no appeal to me in that way at all) nor that a series needs a strong villain presence in order to be good. I would also say that I found Brajira a more engaging villain than either Gritta, Schwarz or Z (oh yeah, that's another of my issues with the show: presenting Gritta as inherently good and redeemable purely because she's female and/or a child, continuing on from Kyoryuger which gave the exact same message via Candelira and Luckyuro.) I just feel that ToQger is stronger in terms of its plot.

One advantage I would give it in terms of the heroes is that they at least have a consistent character outline and each one gets their own arc. Goseiger felt to me at different points like some of the heroes were being written around their actors, and the actor of Go-on Black reportedly stated that the writing was changed to accommodate him because he could not play the character as originally written. I think that writing around an actor can be done well if it's a conscious choice from the beginning of the show and used to play to their natural strengths. Doing it retrospectively because the actor can't really act as the character you have written is poor workmanship all around.