The Extraordinary Fan(boy)
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Oct 7, 2012
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363
Kobayashi IS a good writer, you can't deny that. There are lots of other good writers in Tokusatsu, but I have to admit that every single Sentai Kobayashi has written is in my top 10.


And I don't think I'm being subjective.

This, basically.

Now, i am a Fan of Kobayashi´s works and i am certainly baffled by some of the hate she has been getting for the last few years, though most of the time it seems to be a combination of people hating her because she is popular (after all, this is the internet) and some people not really digging her writing style and then confusing the word "taste" with "objective criticism".

That said, as much as i love her works i will be the first to admit that there are times when she is clearly putting her all into her writing, which leads to amazing shows, and then there are times when she is clearly not that much into it. It´s not like she is just going through the motions like some other writers do, but you can tell that there are times when her writing doesn´t have that "edge" that has made some of her previous shows so memorable.

That´s what i think is the only real problem with ToQger: personally i enjoy the show, i am not crazy about it but i certainly have fun watching it every week, and while i can say that there are a LOT of good elements and ideas within the show, none of them has that particular "edge" that keeps me invested in them.

Like many have said, the Shadow Line is probably one of the best parts of the show, and while i can see all that goodness in them, it is not really super-compelling. I certainly enjoy them, but it´s not like i can´t live without them.

Similarly, i really do enjoy the main cast, particularly the way in which they have grown up; Right for example, started as your usual goofy red who alwasy had his head in the clouds and managed to win by means of cheer optimism, but in later episodes you can see how he has become someone with a clear resolution and a determination to stop the Shadow Line.

He is the best example but you can clearly see how all the characters have grown up and that is something i have always enjoyed about Kobayashi´s writing... but as much as i enjoy the ToQgers as characters, they are certainly not the best characters that Kobayashi has written. They are not bad, they are just not "up there".

That is basically what i mean when i say that the show lacks an "edge": it certainly has good concepts and ideas in there, but while i can enjoy them i cannot get "passionate" about them, and hat is the only real fault i can give to the show since even when it is at its worst it is still fairly inoffensive and i simply cannot get mad at it, so while i would never call it the greatest Sentai, it certainly not the worst. That said, i can totally see how the simplistic nature of the show would be appealing to children, and that is what ultimately matters.

PS: Thinking about it, save for one or two exceptions, the mechas are pretty bland, though i can forgive that since Chou Chou ToQ Dai-Oh is just the best Mecha Name ever.
 
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God, you people are so easily annoyed. I remember when I was like that, when I was like 17 years old.
 
I liked him when he wasn't a god
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and some people not really digging her writing style and then confusing the word "taste" with "objective criticism".

Well, isn't the reverse true? She seems to have a lot of fans who believe that she's this storytelling genius whose presence on a show automatically makes it a masterpiece and that she can basically do no wrong. Which isn't true, she has plenty of flaws as a writer (which include poor pacing and repetitive stock characters/plot elements from show to show) and failing to acknowledge that is no more a service to her than bashing her
 
The Extraordinary Fan(boy)
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she has plenty of flaws as a writer

This is something i agree with, i love her writing but i can definetily see that just as she has her strenghts she also has her weaknesses, something that you can see even in her best shows. My only real objection is that sometimes i see people bashing on her as if she were some talentles hack what hasn´t written anything good in years, which is by no means true.

As i said, i enjoy ToQger but i think this is the one case where she is clearly not giving her all, as to why that is i can only guess, but maybe her recent surge in popularity during the last year (besides ToQ she is also the main writer of the Garo anime and Jojo´s Bizzarre adventure) is taking a toll on her and is taking it easy when writing yet another sentai.
 
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Ivanhobe ; since you feel Toqger is far from the worst sentai show, which shows are worse than it in your opinion? you might enjoy Toqger because you just enjoy sentai in general, and that even a weak show is still enjoyable for you.
 
The Extraordinary Fan(boy)
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Well, that can be a bit tricky for me since i am not that much into sentai; i enjoy sentai and there are some seasons that i do hold in high regard, but if i were to make a list of my favorite toku franchises then SS would be in the fourth or fifth place. That hasn´t stopped me from watching like, 16 seasons of Super Sentai, but i wouldn´t really consider myself to be primarily a Super Sentai Fanboy.

On a more personal note i am not the kind of person that hates things, particularly when it comes to fiction, but i do like to over-analyze things and even when i really like something i am not afraid to point out when something doesn´t really works, and that is why i find it really hard to call ToQger the worst Sentai ever or even naming shows that are worst than this season: there is not one thing that i can say ToQger does worst than any other Sentai.

See, here´s the thing: even when a show is really good, you can usually find out one thing about it that does not work, like maybe a subplot or a character that is completely sub-par, but there are also shows that are bad-to-average in their execution but have one or two silver linning that they manage to do better than other seasons that are considered superior.

This is why it is really hard for me to gauge ToQger against any other show since, while i can say that there is a lot of shows that are arguably better, the individual elements of ToQger still manage to manage to be superior in their execution.

For example, let´s compare the main plot of ToQger with the main plot of say, Kyouryuuger.

I think Kyouryuuger is a fun show and all, but Rikku Sanjou is not particularly good when it comes to handling foreshadowing so a lot of times it seems that he is just making the plot as he goes along. Compare that with ToQger where the plot twist has been foreshadowing since the beginning and the hints the show dropped where quite clever, so even if the plot is simple there is still a very solid structure to it. Kyouryuger certainly has a more dynamic plot, but in terms of execution ToQger is superior, even if the plot is simpler.

Now look at a show like Go-onger that a lot of people seem to despise; the villains of Go-Onger are extremely campy and simple-minded but they can be fun to have around. Compare that with ToQger where you have a very sophisticated group of villains with great interactions and that are more important to the development of the plot than the Gaiark ever were... but lack the charm that made me like the Pollution Ministers.

And finally look at something like Goseiger where they probably had the single worst idea for a Toy Gimmick ever... and yet most of their mechas looked better than ToQ-Oh.

So you see, if i look at every individual element of ToQger i can say that their execution can be as good if not better than that of the same elements from "superior" seasons of Super Sentai, but at the same time some of those elements were executed far better in seasons that are inferior in every other regard.

If i look at every individual element of ToQger, like plot, characters and action, i can say that none of them is actually bad, but the sum of those parts isn´t nearly as good as with some other shows that are actually better even if some of their elements are not nearly as well executed as in ToQger. Inversively, there are shows that i can say are worst than ToQger, and yet they have one or two elements that easily triump the train sentai and can easily be more engaging (for the record, i am the one guy in the universe who genuinely loves Go-Onger).

So basically, i think that there is nothing actually bad about ToQger, but it does lack that extra something that can make even a bad show stand out, and that same extra something is what makes some seasons that are worst than ToQger be more engaging.


You know, it kind of amazes me how i am unable to aswer a simple question like, "what do you think are the worst seasons of Sentai?" :laugh:
 
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You like to over-analyse things? WELCOME TO THE CLUB.
I sooo understand you. Have you seen some of my posts here? Over-analysing all over the place xD
So, basically, it's pretty much what I said : you're able to enjoy every show, finding fun and good points even in shows you agree are arguably less good than others. As such, because of those good points, you're able to find enjoyement. :)
I understand the fact you've trouble to answer my question, don't worry :).
Oh, and which sentai series do you see in high regard?
 
CRETINS! ALL OF THEM!
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I'D watch ToQger over Shinkenger. There I said it.
 
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As much as I dislike this series, I'm really impressed with the villains this year. Too bad, they have to be in such bland series.
 
In Justice, We Trust!
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As much as I dislike this series, I'm really impressed with the villains this year. Too bad, they have to be in such bland series.

I concur, honestly I find the villians far more interesting than the ToQGers.

It's gotten a lot better as of late, but I really don't think it's nothing special. It really irks me that we're this far into the series and they still can't hold a candle to the Shadow Line generals. Though I have to say: my favrioute moment of this show has to be the three way between Right, Zed, Schwartz, and the Shadowline Generals.

It's not the worst Sentai show ever, and if nothing else the show continues to be consistantly average.
 
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