Toqger : one of the worst sentai series ever done?

kuroihikari

Member
Well I can call your constant wave-offs of certain criticisms as "the kids like it, you people act like 17-year olds, get over yourselves" trash too. But that won't get us anywhere, would it?

But then I'd actually have a point, because this stuff being for kids, not pseudo-critic cannon fodder is an actual fact, not an opinion.
 
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Goty

Member
I agree with pretty much everything live jetabare said.

I'm having an incredibly hard time struggling to watch Toqger. The first 16 episodes were especially offensive, since pretty much nothing interesting happened outside of Zet appearing (which took one episode, the only good one of this bunch) and we had the incredibly uninteresting Gritta longing for "Schwartz-sama...." ad nauseam. But for whatever reason the staff seems to think she's great.

Akira's arrival made things slightly more tolerable since then - not that he's great, but the other characters are so devoid of personalities that it makes me miss the Goseigers so much. The cast doesn't help either. Right seemed good at first, but quickly became an airhead who eats a lot and that's it. The others don't deserve any mention at all, but i can say the attempt of Tokatti/Mio "romance" is absolutely awful and Kagura is one of the worst examples of the worst sentai archetype.

Then we have the toys, that are introduced in the laziest possible way i ever seen, like "hey look, we're lucky that monster had swallowed a new train!! awesome!! let's test it"...seriously, are they even trying here? This is Neo Saban's level of writing.

The comedy is annoying and pretty much never works, but that doesn't stop them from trying to shove it down our throats every moment they can - even during the fights. They seem to think, for instance, the Toqgers using their swords to hammer their enemies in the head is funny. No people, it's not. It just makes the action look cheap and non-threatening.

Speaking of which, the fight scenes generally give me the impression the staff is bored and tired doing this.

And then we have the filler. The show feels like a giant pile of filler to be honest. Everytime something apparently relevant happens, it's usually left aside for weeks of more filler. It feels like we get one plot episode every 5-6 (bad) fillers, even if it's not actually like that.

TL;DR, this show is horrible.

Allies : It's pretty telling when the smartest character in the show is a monkey puppet. and even despite this, Ticket is usually annoying with its grating voice. And the less we talk about the Conductor, Wagon, or the president of the Rainbow line and his bunny head, the better.

Jesus, are the Rainbow Line scenes painful. And i thought the Imagins and their hijinks were bad.
 
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lazycoconut

I liked him when he wasn't a god
Right seemed good at first, but quickly became an airhead who eats a lot and that's it. The others don't deserve any mention at all, but i can say the attempt of Tokatti/Mio "romance" is absolutely awful and Kagura is one of the worst examples of the worst sentai archetype..

While I agree with a lot of your views on the show ... assuming that you're talking about "the worst Sentai archetype" being heroines who are ditzy/childish, how is Kagura (who really is a child) worse than Houka, a grown woman acting like a five-year-old in an effort to be "kawaiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!" Or Natsuki, who we were told was a child yet the show used her for adult-appeal fanservice in a manner that completely undermines that idea?
 
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Dr Kain

Guest
But then I'd actually have a point, because this stuff being for kids, not pseudo-critic cannon fodder is an actual fact, not an opinion.

Sentai in the 90s was for kids too, but I didn't see them being overly childish, red rangers that scream at the top of their lungs, over the top slapstick comedy, and villains that were more comedic than threatening. The 90s had a balance of comedy and seriousness, where as most of the shows over the last 10 years have put slapstick over seriousness. And by slapstick I mean the extreme side to the point where they need to make fart and boner jokes.
 

Artisan

Blade Adept
Why are you so hung up on the TOQboner thing? At least from my knowledge, it only happened once and it's not like it's a regular gag...is it? As a puerile humour thing, it's no worse than nipple missiles.

Eh, I've not watched anywhere near enough of TOQger thus far to make any sort of qualified evaluation. I quickly grew bored and the show couldn't sustain my interest, so I dropped it. I suppose TOQger instantly failed in that regard, but I'll make no claims as to its overall quality until I do see enough of the show, because otherwise I'd have ranked Goseiger as one of the worst things I've ever seen purely based on its more unwatchable first half.
 

Clocktower

Member
I'd have a hard time nailing down exactly what it is I dislike about ToQGer, but I definitely don't enjoy it. As someone who's been watching Sentai/Rider pretty much religiously since getting into it around the Gokaiger/OOO period, this is the first show I've really struggled to watch. Bear in mind that I really disliked Wizard and Gobusters too, yet they still provided me with some incentive to keep checking them out each week. I don't even hate the comedy or the designs as much as some people seem to. At the moment, I'm about 7-8 episodes behind on ToQGer and that's after I decided to catch up on the latest 6 just before those were on.

I don't think it helps that all of the characters are basically the same, barring a few characteristics and that the plot is virtually non-existant. All there is to it (unless something has been introduced since I've been away) is "we've got to find our home!". It's not engaging and doesn't really develop in any interesting ways. Even the plot twist was extremely predictable, with most of us guessing it by I think around the second episode. Which wouldn't be a bad thing if it was a worthwhile payoff, but it hasn't really changed anything.

Some of the episodes have been outright terrible too. Particularly anything involving Mio, which typically comes down to some incredibly sexist and offensive plot, and one of the recent episodes where it turned out that two of the characters had always been big fans of.. *dice rolls* karate! I guess the plot twist did lead to something, it give them an excuse to make up pointless crap for the characters to do each week, since they're all essentially blank slates.

I will say that the villains, especially Zed brought a lot of life to the show, but he's far too underused to really be interesting. Akira has consistently been hilarious too, if a little one note.
 

Black Fang

Active Member
Some of the episodes have been outright terrible too. Particularly anything involving Mio, which typically comes down to some incredibly sexist and offensive plot

Where?

Am I the only one who thought the last Mio episode wasn't that bad? Certainly not as horrible as the comments made it out to be before I actually sat down to watch.
 

lazycoconut

I liked him when he wasn't a god
It's not the "stalker" I disliked about the episode so much as having Tokacchi act jealous and possessive towards her and this is treated as justified and/or amusing, rather than shown to be a negative thing (she's not an object he can claim as "his" - especially when he won't ask her out!) Plus the hypocrisy of the idea that Tokacchi's awkwardness is why we should want him to "get the girl", the awkwardness of Mio's stalker is why we should laugh at him
 

Black Fang

Active Member
That is completely not how I saw that episode at all. You keep seeing things that you want to see.

Because Tokatchi might be a bit jealous that means he's possessive of Mio? are you serious? Let's not forget that these characters are still children at heart if not in body, so the things they make be thinking or feeling aren't going to make sense anyway, especially not to them.

I have never felt that the show wants me to ship Tokatchi and Mio. If they do become a couple, whatever. It's not something I care about. What I care about is whether these guys are going to get home and how their "children in adult bodies" will be resolved. I just shrug episodes like that off and move on. Perhaps you should too.
 

lazycoconut

I liked him when he wasn't a god
I have never felt that the show wants me to ship Tokatchi and Mio. If they do become a couple, whatever. It's not something I care about. What I care about is whether these guys are going to get home and how their "children in adult bodies" will be resolved. I just shrug episodes like that off and move on. Perhaps you should too.

I don't like the show implying that Mio will get over her awkwardness with romance and fall for Tokacchi just because HE wants her, and more importantly I don't like its focus on Gritta and Schwarz (especially when even the heroes keep showing concern for her and wanting to protect her - I don't care how sad she is about "Schwarz-sama!") Without that element of the show, yeah, I'd be invested in whether or not they're going to get home. I want to be watching the show to see them, not to constantly have annoying villain characters shoved in my face
 

Black Fang

Active Member
I don't like the show implying that Mio will get over her awkwardness with romance and fall for Tokacchi just because HE wants her

Where do you see this? I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

and more importantly I don't like its focus on Gritta and Schwarz (especially when even the heroes keep showing concern for her and wanting to protect her - I don't care how sad she is about "Schwarz-sama!")

Here I'll grant you somewhat. I don't mind Gritta pining over Schwarz other than the fact that they had to drill it in our heads all the time in the early episodes. (Making her a fat purple lizard doesn't much help either.) What gets me is Schwarz suddenly wanting revenge for her sake after being indifferent towards her before. Perhaps he's doing it simply for honor, as she "died" rather cruelly. But the revenge/going rogue plot is a bit disappointing to me, as I'd hoped to see something more original with Schwarz. (Say, instead of getting personal revenge he wants his position back so he can control the army, and simply finds Zet's disinterest in matters of state irritating.)
 

kuroihikari

Member
Sentai in the 90s was for kids too, but I didn't see them being overly childish, red rangers that scream at the top of their lungs, over the top slapstick comedy, and villains that were more comedic than threatening. The 90s had a balance of comedy and seriousness, where as most of the shows over the last 10 years have put slapstick over seriousness. And by slapstick I mean the extreme side to the point where they need to make fart and boner jokes.

The 90s is an entirely different time, though. Many standards have changed. The market has changed. The forms of entertainment have changed.

Plus, opinion. For me, or at least a part of me that I had outgrown several years ago, everything from the 80s to the present is "childish drivel". And that's why I watch them.

This "It was done better back in my time" thing is narrow-minded and simplistic.
 

Black Fang

Active Member
What does a changed market have to do with what someone likes or dislikes? The market right now is for degenerate rap and auto-tuned pop. That means I like to like it because it's stupid to say stuff was better before? Maybe standards have broken down and the market is full of idiots. That's an opinion just as valid as saying anything from the 80s onward is childish drivel. (Which begs the question of why you would watch something you consider 'drivel'.)

You're essentially saying that everything is relative and that no one can ever set a standard for anything.
 
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Dr Kain

Guest
The 90s is an entirely different time, though. Many standards have changed. The market has changed. The forms of entertainment have changed.

Plus, opinion. For me, or at least a part of me that I had outgrown several years ago, everything from the 80s to the present is "childish drivel". And that's why I watch them.

This "It was done better back in my time" thing is narrow-minded and simplistic.

Uh except I'm not saying it was done better back in my time, I am providing the facts as to why it IS better. I already said, there was a balance between comedy and seriousness. Look at KakuRanger as a prime example. It knew how to balance everything out. Yes, sometimes there were short comings such as Jetman's monsters of the week being quite dumb. However, they still fleshed out the villains just as much as the rangers (well, three of the rangers). ZyuRanger may have had the annoying child of the week, but that was countered by the storytelling be it between Burai's time limit to Bandora's reasoning for turning to evil. DaiRanger also took a risk by incorporating Chinese mythology into the series. GoGoV had a family dynamic between both the rangers and the Saima Clan alike. TimeRanger took a risk with an entirely new theme and gave us a strong ranger cast with a lot of mature storytelling. Gingaman kind of rehashed ZyuRanger, but they took a new approach to it and gave us a great variation of villains to go with it. Then of course we have CarRanger, which just went all balls out on the comedy, and yet, it still maintained a sense of seriousness in its tone with how stories were handled (such as Richihiker defeating the rangers and taking RV Robo). MegaRanger even found a way to take teens and make them rangers without amping them up on drugs. Not just that, but the series even had an episode where the rangers only had 24 hours to live, and while it was obvious they were going to find a cure, the story was written to show us their fears of dying so young. I don't even think another Sentai series has ever redone that episode plot.
 

kuroihikari

Member
What does a changed market have to do with what someone likes or dislikes?

It has nothing to do with what someone likes or dislikes. What it has to do with is the nature of humor. The nature of art. The nature of entertainment. What people enjoy and get entertained by are not the same anymore.

That is, if it may not be made for us anymore. Expecting it to be the same is setting yourself up for disappointment.

The market right now is for degenerate rap and auto-tuned pop. That means I like to like it because it's stupid to say stuff was better before?

Invalid analogy. You still have access to a wide variety of music. You're just not looking hard enough.

Maybe standards have broken down and the market is full of idiots.

Who sets what the "unbroken" standards are? Certainly not me, nor you. Am I presumptuous enough to think that my standards are better than anyone else's? No I'm not. Half my life I've spent thinking I would stick to deep, thinking material to entertain myself, but I still found myself enjoying pop music of whatever time I'm in. Why should I pretend to be some one I'm not just because of some self-imposed "standards"?



That's an opinion just as valid as saying anything from the 80s onward is childish drivel. (Which begs the question of why you would watch something you consider 'drivel'.)

Because oftentimes I want to sit back from a day of overthinking and enjoy simple, fun stuff.

There are a lot of concepts that irk me and turn me off from a lot of popular and critically acclaimed material: Oftentimes they stress me out more than they entertain me, even though I can say they're technically great. But with simple kids' shows I find myself just turning off inhibitions exactly because there's no other way to enjoy it. And it has served me well.

You're essentially saying that everything is relative and that no one can ever set a standard for anything.

Everything IS relative, though, and everyone CAN set a standard. That's the entire point.

From Merriam Webster, "Standard" is a level of quality, achievement, etc., that is considered acceptable or desirable. Note the use of the passive tense ("is considered"). That means there is no set person or entity that sets what a standard is. So, no "broken" or higher standards, just different ones. Oftentimes, it's a matter of convention.

Uh except I'm not saying it was done better back in my time, I am providing the facts as to why it IS better. I already said, there was a balance between comedy and seriousness.

Have you considered that maybe people of this time prefer a different balance than you do? Or that shows are specifically designed to accommodate the present culture rather than that of 10+ years ago?
 
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Not just that, but the series even had an episode where the rangers only had 24 hours to live, and while it was obvious they were going to find a cure, the story was written to show us their fears of dying so young. I don't even think another Sentai series has ever redone that episode plot.

This plot is a classic Kobayashi stock plot : she did it again in GogoV (episode 34), Shinkenger also had a similar plot with Kotoha in episode 20, and Toqger used that kind of plot no less than TWICE : episode 10 with Tokatti and episode 33 with them all.
 
This plot is a classic Kobayashi stock plot : she did it again in GogoV (episode 34), Shinkenger also had a similar plot with Kotoha in episode 20, and Toqger used that kind of plot no less than TWICE : episode 10 with Tokatti and episode 33 with them all.

Hell, that episode of Megaranger was even the very first Sentai episode she wrote. Must have gotten really good reception.
 
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Dr Kain

Guest
This plot is a classic Kobayashi stock plot : she did it again in GogoV (episode 34), Shinkenger also had a similar plot with Kotoha in episode 20, and Toqger used that kind of plot no less than TWICE : episode 10 with Tokatti and episode 33 with them all.

I don't remember it in GoGoV. You are right about Kotoha, but it was not executed the same way as wasn't she unconscious the entire time? That had no direct effect on her personality.
 
In episode 34 of GogoV, the plot was well developed, but they find salvation by sending the toxic pollen in space.
One of the reasons I started to dislike Toqger was its excessive use of stock plot, and notably the "ranger who's gonna die soon" plot, done twice.
The next few episode are introducing the first part of the final showdown; perhaps there might be some hope, with some of the potential of the villains which will blossom now; who knows?
 
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